ICF All Time Test XI : Openers

[Ultimate_Game]

how much FC cricket did Sachin play anyway? Didnt he debut in international cricket when he was 17?

One would assume it would be easier to average 95 or thereabuts in lesser no. of games coz if you have a bad start it's tough to average 95 by the end of your career and even if you only factor in FC matches Bradman outdistances SRT comfortably. And I hope it's fair to say that there wouldn't be too much of a gap between trundlers at FC level.

[vvvslaxman]

[thongale]

What is that source? looks much cleaner than cricinfo stuff.

[vvvslaxman]

What is that source? looks much cleaner than cricinfo stuff.

cricket archive

[Number]

Impressive average of 80+ and this was when he was a teenager. Overall for Mumbai+Bombay his average is 91.

[ganeshran]

Maintaining an high FC average isnt really that difficult. Its full of trundlers and flat pitches anyway. The reason lots of batsmen are not able to do is because they make the national side if they are consistently scoring runs in domestic. And once they make the national team, their domestic appearances become sporadic and they dont take it as seriously as they once did

[Crookbond]

Maintaining an high FC average isnt really that difficult. Its full of trundlers and flat pitches anyway. The reason lots of batsmen are not able to do is because they make the national side if they are consistently scoring runs in domestic. And once they make the national team, their domestic appearances become sporadic and they dont take it as seriously as they once did

The question is - How did Don Bradman maintain it over 95 in both FC and Test cricket! Going by your premise, it should be a cakewalk for best players in Test cricket to average like a 150 or so in FC.

[ganeshran]

The question is - How did Don Bradman maintain it over 95 in both FC and Test cricket! Going by your premise' date=' it should be a cakewalk for best players in Test cricket to average like a 150 or so in FC.[/quote'] If the best players in Test cricket play only FC cricket, yes they would be able to achieve very high averages easily (150 is stretching it, but 100 should be achievable). The standard of bowling they face is far lesser than that of an international side However, after consistent performances in domestic, they are elevated to the national side and start playing FC only occasionally and also lose the motivation to play at a lower level.

[Raghav_12]

The question is - How did Don Bradman maintain it over 95 in both FC and Test cricket! Going by your premise' date=' it should be a cakewalk for best players in Test cricket to average like a 150 or so in FC.[/quote'] No. It doesn't work that way. There are some players who can play their best game when conditions are easy and score tons of runs, for example Mark Ramprakash, Grame Hick, Ajay Sharma etc. But these players are found wanting when elevated to higher level of cricket. On the other side there are players who woud not have greatest records at mediocre level but elevate themselves to a higher level when put against higher quality opposition. That's why players like Dravid, Ganguly or many other international players have lesser records than many domestic bullies despite decidely being much better batsmen than each of them. Hope you understand that you are talking about Cricket not about computer simulation game.

[Crookbond]

If the best players in Test cricket play only FC cricket, yes they would be able to achieve very high averages easily (150 is stretching it, but 100 should be achievable). The standard of bowling they face is far lesser than that of an international side However, after consistent performances in domestic, they are elevated to the national side and start playing FC only occasionally and also lose the motivation to play at a lower level.

Don Bradman didn't apparently. :hatsoff:

[Crookbond]

No. It doesn't work that way. There are some players who can play their best game when conditions are easy and score tons of runs, for example Mark Ramprakash, Grame Hick, Ajay Sharma etc. But these players are found wanting when elevated to higher level of cricket. On the other side there are players who woud not have greatest records at mediocre level but elevate themselves to a higher level when put against higher quality opposition. That's why players like Dravid, Ganguly or many other international players have lesser records than many domestic bullies despite decidely being much better batsmen than each of them. Hope you understand that you are talking about Cricket not about computer simulation game.

Interesting. Now, by what you're saying it would be logically TRUE that players who perform well in FC cricket and even better in International cricket are real legends. As far as computer simulation goes - Mein Karoon Toh Saala Character Dheela Hai. It's time for you to introspect and stop slice-dice of data to prove an arcane point.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Marut]

Maintaining an high FC average isnt really that difficult. Its full of trundlers and flat pitches anyway. The reason lots of batsmen are not able to do is because they make the national side if they are consistently scoring runs in domestic. And once they make the national team, their domestic appearances become sporadic and they dont take it as seriously as they once did

How high is high? 70 is high enough but that is what cricketers other than Bradman have managed. During Bradman's time it was common for all batsmen to play lots of FC matches even after they made the test team - yet we do not find any one any where near Don.

[ganeshran]

How high is high? 70 is high enough but that is what cricketers other than Bradman have managed. During Bradman's time it was common for all batsmen to play lots of FC matches even after they made the test team - yet we do not find any one any where near Don.

If the top test players today play their cricket solely at FC level, are you saying they cant average high enough as Bradman did in FC back in his days? i.e. ~100

[Jersey #10]

The question is - How did Don Bradman maintain it over 95 in both FC and Test cricket! Going by your premise' date=' it should be a cakewalk for best players in Test cricket to average like a 150 or so in FC.[/quote'] I bet today's FC trundlers play more variations than Don did in his days. He really only played Engand in England and in Australia in unlimited days matches. BIG DEAL! Must have been easier than FC cricket. Don

[Jersey #10]

1. Viru 2. Hayden

[Ultimate_Game]

If the top test players today play their cricket solely at FC level' date=' are you saying they cant average high enough as Bradman did in FC back in his days? i.e. ~100[/quote'] Well if it were so easy someone would have already done it now but other than Don nobody even came close to doing so. As for cricketers playing "solely at FC level" you are forgetting that if the batsmen play solely at FC level so would the other intl bowlers and the level of FC bowling wouldn't be as low as you might think. In Bradman's days when he scored all those runs at FC level and averaged 95 he did so when other top Aussie intl bowlers were playing FC cricket as well. Essentially Bradman averaged 95 facing the best English and Aussie bowling on offer at the time which were the top 2 intl sides.

[rkt.india]

Well if it were so easy someone would have already done it now but other than Don nobody even came close to doing so. As for cricketers playing "solely at FC level" you are forgetting that if the batsmen play solely at FC level so would the other intl bowlers and the level of FC bowling wouldn't be as low as you might think. In Bradman's days when he scored all those runs at FC level and averaged 95 he did so when other top Aussie intl bowlers were playing FC cricket as well. Essentially Bradman averaged 95 facing the best English and Aussie bowling on offer at the time which were the top 2 intl sides.

When even a Batsman like Rahane can average around 70 and Rohit can average 63 at FC level, imagine what average likes of SRT could have achieved if he had only played FC.

[Ultimate_Game]

When even a Batsman like Rahane can average around 70 and Rohit can average 63 at FC level' date=' imagine what average likes of SRT could have achieved if he had only played FC.[/quote'] Well the thing about sports, or anything in life for that matter, is that "imagination" doesn't count for much and only the actual results count. As I said earlier if it was so easy to average 100 in FC it would have been done by now already. As regards to the other point of Rahane & Rohit averaging in 60s and what Tendulkar could have done, what would have people said 5 years back if someone had said that India would win 2 World Cups and Gambhir & Dhoni would star in them (with Gambhir top scoring in both finals) even though Tendulkar would be around. Morale of the story being that names don't count for much and it's the performance and actual results which count. If everything would be left to imagination I am sure Ramprakash and Hick would have left Bradman far behind.