punjabi_khota Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 It is really incredible that things like these can be predicted so far ahead by using mathematical theories. Just re-inforces the importance of theory in modern science. Is this experimental confirmation comparable in significance to the COBE experiment ? P.S.: Will Higgs get a Nobel now ?
The Outsider Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 It is really incredible that things like these can be predicted so far ahead by using mathematical theories. Just re-inforces the importance of theory in modern science. Is this experimental confirmation comparable in significance to the COBE experiment ? P.S.: Will Higgs get a Nobel now ? I would say it certainly is right up there with the COBE discovery of the Cosmic Microwave Background and fluctuations. Come to think of it this discovery says that Electromagnetism and Weak force are the same at high enough energies. Unifying Electricity and Magnetism might have been a fluke, but this certainly is not a fluke - it's just brilliant science from everyone involved! If Higgs doesn't get a Nobel Prize after this - despite the bias of Nobel committees against theorists then I would be shocked. Just imagine, 40 years earlier this guy writes down self consistent electromagnetic and weak interactions on a pen and paper to show that photons and W/Z Bosons can be decoupled just by the introduction of a field which gives mass to some particles below a certain energy and it is all confirmed through one of the most rigorous experimental lab ever set up. Math is just so great! :adore:
The Outsider Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 :D Reminds of this Great read - though I hardly know of a Physicist specializing in theory who does not understand the importance of Math. Though they are separate fields I've no hesitation in admitting the Math is more fundamental, despite my training in Physics. The problem with Math is that it gives too many solutions and that is where the thinking of a Physicist comes in as to which solutions to keep and which to discard.
Brainfade Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 Mathematicians think physicists are dumb. Physicists think chemists are dumb. Chemists think biologists are dumb. I am somewhere at the bottom of that totem pole. Thanks for the explanations, all. Esp. Outsider. I think I get a feel for it now, but man this is abstract! It's like trying to unify light (that I sense with my eye) and "stuff" (that I sense with my skin). Not sure I can connect them yet. And the cartoon explanation is cool, too! Overall, it is certainly a big deal (even I can see/feel that!!).
The Outsider Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Mathematicians think physicists are dumb. Physicists think chemists are dumb. Chemists think biologists are dumb. I am somewhere at the bottom of that totem pole. Even though I am not am at the top of the "food chain" I feel that is really the case - a great Mathematician can be a great Physicist or Biologist but the converse is not true, IMHO! Thanks for the explanations, all. Esp. Outsider. I think I get a feel for it now, but man this is abstract! It's like trying to unify light (that I sense with my eye) and "stuff" (that I sense with my skin). Not sure I can connect them yet. Actually, it's not abstract at all - in layman terms this is one of the more mundane scientific discoveries - where did mass come from, Baah let's introduce a field which interacts in certain ways to give mass to certain particles! The odds of that field and particle being the actual field and particle which impart mass are huge! Overall, it is certainly a big deal (even I can see/feel that!!). I think it's a HUGE deal - one of the greatest scientific discoveries EVER!
Nova Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Mathematicians think physicists are dumb. Physicists think chemists are dumb. Chemists think biologists are dumb. I am somewhere at the bottom of that totem pole. A sociologist retorts with this: :D Source: http://xkcdsucks.blogspot.com/2008/06/sorry-ive-been-late-with-these-recently.html
Brainfade Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 Even though I am not am at the top of the "food chain" I feel that is really the case - a great Mathematician can be a great Physicist or Biologist but the converse is not true' date=' IMHO! [/quote'] A (molecular) biologist and chemist are interchangeable, but the rest of that hierarchy is spot-on. If you say so, saar. Imperceptible entities such as "fields" and sub-atomic particles are quite abstract. But then again, genes and DNA, which rock my boat are abstract concepts to a lot of folks. I think it's a HUGE deal - one of the greatest scientific discoveries EVER!
Brainfade Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 A sociologist retorts with this: :D Source: http://xkcdsucks.blogspot.com/2008/06/sorry-ive-been-late-with-these-recently.html LOL!
Ram Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 My head cannot fully comprehend all that's in this thread (ashamed to admit that), but as a Science buff, I could not be more happier that we are getting closer and closer to explain the basis of our existence and all that is around us.
Brainfade Posted July 5, 2012 Author Posted July 5, 2012 Another quick observation - it is "a" Higgs boson, not "the" Higgs boson.
Crookbond Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1458922 Another explanation by theoretical physicist John Ellis
Rajiv Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 [Layman] So what does this discovery do? apart from that being a part of the textbook. What is it's practical use? I am asking coz if this was something like '"found the main protein which can kill HIV etc" then they can work on a new drug but what about this. I understand that no one would waste time, research and money to simply find a particle, does this change any existing theories etc [Layman] Akshayz >> AFAIK - whenever science was questioned on "something out of nothing", the reply was to do with expansion and contraction ( more like the what came first?, the chicken or the egg )
Precambrian Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 wow! so close to solving world hunger I presume...
Crookbond Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 10 Weird Stories About the Higgs Boson Peter Higgs' best-known paper on the new particle was initially rejected The science minister for the United Kingdom once held a national competition to find the best Higgs explanation The Higgs mechanism explains only a small fraction of the mass in the universe Higgs was not the only physicist who contributed to the idea of how to give particles mass The term "boson" comes from the name of Indian physicist and mathematician Satyendra Nath Bose The nickname "God particle" originated from a book by Nobel laureate Leon Lederman Standard particle theory will be incomplete even if the Higgs particle is discovered If the Higgs particle exists, it may have relatives Scientists may have first glimpsed the Higgs boson more than a decade ago Finding the new particle would be only the beginning http://io9.com/5890884/10-weird-stories-about-the-higgs-boson
punjabi_khota Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 wow! so close to solving world hunger I presume... World hunger is not a science problem, it is logistics and/or political problem. It has been solved as far science is concerned (for instance, there is bazillian tonnes of food sitting in India's storage (thanks to green revolution), while millions die of starvation).
punjabi_khota Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 [Layman] So what does this discovery do? apart from that being a part of the textbook. What is it's practical use? I am asking coz if this was something like '"found the main protein which can kill HIV etc" then they can work on a new drug but what about this. I understand that no one would waste time' date= research and money to simply find a particle, does this change any existing theories etc [Layman] Akshayz >> AFAIK - whenever science was questioned on "something out of nothing", the reply was to do with expansion and contraction ( more like the what came first?, the chicken or the egg ) No applications for forseeable future. But future is hardly predictable. :hatsoff: It doesn't change the prevailing theory, rather confirms it, and kills other competing theories (I guess).
Crookbond Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 [Layman] So what does this discovery do? apart from that being a part of the textbook. What is it's practical use? I am asking coz if this was something like '"found the main protein which can kill HIV etc" then they can work on a new drug but what about this. I understand that no one would waste time' date= research and money to simply find a particle, does this change any existing theories etc [Layman] Akshayz >> AFAIK - whenever science was questioned on "something out of nothing", the reply was to do with expansion and contraction ( more like the what came first?, the chicken or the egg ) http://www.firstpost.com/tech/why-the-discovery-of-higgs-boson-is-so-important-367723.html The Higgs is part of many theoretical equations underpinning scientists understanding of how the world came into being. If it doesn't exist, then those theories would need to be fundamentally overhauled. The fact that it apparently does exist means scientists have been on the right track with their theories. But there's a twist: the measurements seem to diverge slightly from what would be expected under the so-called Standard Model of particle physics. This is exciting for scientists because it opens the possibility to potential new discoveries including a theory known as super-symmetry where particles don't just come in pairs think matter and anti-matter but quadruplets, all with slightly different characteristics.
bulbul Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 there must be something in return when they are spending billions of dollors for this experiment
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