New Zealand Tour of India 2012

[Trichromatic]

:haha: DM - we were thinking same thing.

[GautiMaan]

It seems Dhoni is the victim of his own success,people expect him to replicate his ODI form in tests. And we need to be grateful that we have a guy like MSD,we dont have to open threads to predict the number of catches he would drop:cantstop:

[Ultimate_Game]

U_G, Here is ammunition for you. I see that Tendulkar-Dhoni (in terms of batting) an unfair comparison. Very few WK's in cricket's history average in the 40s and Dhoni is averaging 37. The expectation from Tendulkar and MS Dhoni wrt batting is different in Test matches. The sooner people accept that the better it is. Batting Averages of Wicket Keepers in Test Matches - played at least 50 games - scored at least 3000 runs No code has to be inserted here. If MS Dhoni ends up exactly at the same position No.4 where he is now, I think we should be more than happy as a WK batsman.

As I said being in the top 4 wk-batsmen of all times is greatness. We are lucky to have Dhoni when earlier we had the likes of Ajay Ratra, Vijay Dahiya, Nayan Mongia, Saba Karim etc.

[Crookbond]

Here is more to add UG's point. Indian Wicket Keepers batting averages - Matches played atleast 30 - Runs scored 1000 No code has to be inserted here. Once again shows how we have a WK batsman whom India never had a luxury of. Barring Farookh Engineer - in my books he was as good (if not better) than MS Dhoni, I do not think India has ever had a WK like MS Dhoni.

[ganeshran]

The intent of the thread was not to be a Dhoni Vs Tendulkar, or Y Vs Z comparison. The idea was to what next if we hit the nadir, i.e. fail to beat kiwis at home. To me the bigger worry is the failings of our top order. When 3 of the top 4 batsmen are walking wkts team will always be under pressure and you can't expect lower order to bail out the team time and again. As I said earlier in the thread I would get the youngsters in and let Dhoni captain for the near future till a youngster (Kohli or Pujara) is ready to take over captaincy. Once that happens, Dhoni can retire from Tests. But at this point if you ask me which is the bigger problem - our batting or our captaincy, my answer would be our batting which is what needs to be overhauled ASAP.

I never said it was a comparison thread. It was to discuss the changes if we lose to Kiwis, and the one change I would like to see is at the top. Its not the only one, but I expect the selectors to fire Dhoni for maintaining a 9-3 win loss record even though two series out of them were at home against sides ranked 8 and 9. The reason that we cant change the captaincy later is that the next round of abroad tests start in november 2013. We cannot thrust a new captain at the top before a tough series. Hence the new captain should be blooded at home before he can go abroad with a rookie team. If Dhoni decides to retire in 2013 something which he has already hinted about, we will be left facing disaster in South Africa, just like young batsmen need some time and easy series at home to develop, a rookie skipper needs the same. How much more worse than he could do than 9-3?

[carnish]

ur record is pretty good

If you think I can jinx our batting lineup and they need my help to chase this down, then they better quit cricket. I am gonna Jinx them. :beee:

[Crookbond]

:haha: DM - we were thinking same thing.

That said, I should have lowered down the number of matches played to 40 looks like. Anyways, it still doesn't make much of a difference and is good enough to drive the point.

[Old guy]

If you think I can jinx our batting lineup and they need my help to chase this down' date=' then they better quit cricket. I am gonna Jinx them. :beee:[/quote'] but u were so angry at my comment of 300* :dontknow: why do u take my jinxing seriously :nervous:

[ganeshran]

An average of 38 in Tests is greatness for wks :dontknow: Other than 2-3 wks I am not aware of wks who averaged more than Dhoni in Tests.

I dont think anyone would consider Dhoni to be a great keeper in tests. In ODIs his batting makes him an entry into the ATG side, but in tests he is nowhere near the top.

[Crookbond]

honestly its not jsut stats...we saw saha bat in australia he almost survived for session we never saw fight like tht form dhoni anyway its more of captaincy then batting.. and dhoni never seemed interested he can continue to be keeper but i will pick saha over him in away games

If anything, the Virat Kohli thread should tell you that to never count your chickens. Deep Dasgupta too played a one off good innings in SA, Ajay Ratra got a 100 (but he was mis managed as well). Anyways, all I ask is for consistency - if you are dropping Dhoni in away games, you might as well drop Tendulkar, Gambhir and Sehwag. Boy that's a lot of changes!

[Old guy]

If anything' date=' the Virat Kohli thread should tell you that to never count your chickens. Deep Dasgupta too played a one off good innings in SA, Ajay Ratra got a 100 (but he was mis managed as well). Anyways, all I ask is for consistency - if you are dropping Dhoni in away games, you might as well drop Tendulkar, Gambhir and Sehwag. Boy that's a lot of changes![/quote'] a team who lost 8-0 has lots of problems and needs lots of changes doesnt it ?

[Raghav_12]

An average of 38 in Tests is greatness for wks :dontknow: Other than 2-3 wks I am not aware of wks who averaged more than Dhoni in Tests.

That exposes Dhoni's average of 37. There have definitely been more than 2-3 WK who were much-much better batsmen than Dhoni. Dhoni is no way close to Prior in batting, even though there averages don't defer much. Dhoni has padded his averages a lot through home tests and with test against NZ and WI. His average is as misleading as Vinod Kambli's average of 53.

[Trichromatic]

That said, I should have lowered down the number of matches played to 40 looks like. Anyways, it still doesn't make much of a difference and is good enough to drive the point.

It's always better to start with lower criteria like 10 matches and then you can easily notice which players do you want to eliminate and which ones you want to keep with minimum qualification.

[Crookbond]

Virender Sehwag - 4th Innings of a Test Match (in India) No code has to be inserted here. Virender Sehwag - 4th Innings of a Test Match in India Last 6 innings No code has to be inserted here. Looks like Ram has done some analysis. :hmmm:

[Raghav_12]

Kiran More with average of 25-26 was more reliable bat than Dhoni. He was a bit Prior like, scoring runs only when India desperatelly needed, just opposite to what Dhoni does.

[JaFanatic]

cool guys we wont lose this test:two_thumbs_up:

[Ultimate_Game]

I dont think anyone would consider Dhoni to be a great keeper in tests. In ODIs his batting makes him an entry into the ATG side' date=' but in tests he is nowhere near the top.[/quote'] Not great but he's more than decent as a wk-batsman in Tests.

[Crookbond]

Kiran More in Test matches won in India No code has to be inserted here. Kiran More in Test matches won abroad No code has to be inserted here. Make your own decision.

[Ultimate_Game]

Kiran More with average of 25-26 was more reliable bat than Dhoni. He was a bit Prior like' date=' scoring runs only when India desperatelly needed, just opposite to what Dhoni does.[/quote'] :facepalm: More better than Dhoni! Seriously? So now a wk with an average of 25 is better than Dhoni who averages 38!!! :cantstop:

[Crookbond]

Also, just in case if people do not realize Dhoni was "groomed" for the Test match captaincy. Kumble took over for a year and half & only then was Dhoni made a captain.