Srikkanth has hurt VVS Laxman: Sourav Ganguly

[Number]

When is Ganguly's movie coming out?

ek tha (bengal) tiger??:giggle:

[Shunya]

Ganguly has been such a let down ever since he left international cricket....

[gult]

Dada can be a great politician.

[Ultimate_Game]

How can Dhoni support somebody for/during 0-8 debacle when he himself is main culprit? Dhoni's should have been first head to roll after that. Don't know what selectors are waiting for? Would they remove Dhoni' date=' only when India lose a series at home?[/quote'] You could replace Dhoni with any captain you want to and the result wouldn't change. When the team couldn't even bat out 70 overs in an innings most times, failed to even reach 200 on numerous occasions, forget 300 or 400, and failed to bat out even a session without losing a wkt over 8 Tests what could have anyone done about 0-8? Our batting simply imploded and even with a bowling lineup of WI from 80s we would have struggled to win matches.

[Trichromatic]

You could replace Dhoni with any captain you want to and the result wouldn't change. When the team couldn't even bat out 70 overs in an innings most times' date= failed to even reach 200 on numerous occasions, forget 300 or 400, and failed to bat out even a session without losing a wkt over 8 Tests what could have anyone done about 0-8? Our batting simply imploded and even with a bowling lineup of WI from 80s we would have struggled to win matches.

Couldn't bat for 2 sessions in trentbridge test to save the match, that too on a flat track.

[ganeshran]

Dada firmly on his way to becoming the next Bishen Singh Bedi.

[Ultimate_Game]

Couldn't bat for 2 sessions in trentbridge test to save the match' date=' that too on a flat track.[/quote'] After the first 2 tests or so I simply wanted our batsmen to put up a fight and wanted to see one session where we didn't lose a wkt. Sadly it never happened I mean a session is generally 25-35 overs and we couldn't even bat those many overs once without losing a wkt. How exactly could any captain have averted that fiasco?

[Crookbond]

Dada firmly on his way to becoming the next Bishen Singh Bedi.

+1 I guess he invited Bishan Singh Bedi to teach spin to the Bengal team too?

[Raghav_12]

You could replace Dhoni with any captain you want to and the result wouldn't change. When the team couldn't even bat out 70 overs in an innings most times' date=' failed to even reach 200 on numerous occasions, forget 300 or 400, and failed to bat out even a session without losing a wkt over 8 Tests what could have anyone done about 0-8? Our batting simply imploded and even with a bowling lineup of WI from 80s we would have struggled to win matches.[/quote'] Captain should have been able to get best out of their proven batsmen. If that didn't happen then there has to some problem with captain. Last time also we toured Aus and Eng with similar set of batsmen but we had a different captain, so things were different. Forget about Kaptaan Kool's own batting. Saha looked much more assured in that one test in crease then Dhoni did in 7 tests put together. Dhoni should have been the first one to go after overseeing the biggest ever humiliation of indian cricket.

[ganeshran]

At some stage, the captain does take responsibility for the defeat just like the gets credit for the victories. When Dhoni can be given credit for winning us the world cup with our bowling attack, he can also be criticized for the 8-0 drubbing. And Dhoni the batsman also deserves criticism for not standing and fighting when it was required. He averaged in his mid 20s in those tests.

[Ultimate_Game]

At some stage, the captain does take responsibility for the defeat just like the gets credit for the victories. When Dhoni can be given credit for winning us the world cup with our bowling attack, he can also be criticized for the 8-0 drubbing. And Dhoni the batsman also deserves criticism for not standing and fighting when it was required. He averaged in his mid 20s in those tests.

Captain should have been able to get best out of their proven batsmen. If that didn't happen then there has to some problem with captain. Last time also we toured Aus and Eng with similar set of batsmen but we had a different captain, so things were different. Forget about Kaptaan Kool's own batting. Saha looked much more assured in that one test in crease then Dhoni did in 7 tests put together. Dhoni should have been the first one to go after overseeing the biggest ever humiliation of indian cricket.

Yes captain does deserve criticism for the debacle, especially for the defensive fields Dhoni put whenever any specialist batsman was batting with the tail, but it would be a bit of a reach to blame him for not "getting the best out of the batsmen". Those were tried and tested batsmen with more experience than any batting lineup in the history of the game. I mean what exactly do you do to get the best out of the likes of Tendulkar, Dravid & Laxman? For Tendulkar he should have played against WI and gotten his 100th 100 out of the way before the Eng & Aus series but you can't blame Dhoni for Tendulkar sitting out of against WI. As for batting, on a tour where the batting simply imploded Dhoni who was a wk-batsman still averaged more than some of our batsmen and IIRC he still averaged near 30 which isn't that bad. Regarding the same set of batsmen doing well in previous tours of Aus & Eng, I can get WI team of 80s to tour Eng and Aus and after they are white-washed make the same comment but it wouldn't make much sense. On previous tours batsmen actually scored runs and scored 100s and on 0-8 fiasco we just 1 centurion in each series. Maybe if the batsmen had scored runs Dhoni would have had something to work with but you can't do much when your batsmen bat like a Sunday league team.

[Raghav_12]

Yes captain does deserve criticism for the debacle, especially for the defensive fields Dhoni put whenever any specialist batsman was batting with the tail, but it would be a bit of a reach to blame him for not "getting the best out of the batsmen". Those were tried and tested batsmen with more experience than any batting lineup in the history of the game. I mean what exactly do you do to get the best out of the likes of Tendulkar, Dravid & Laxman? For Tendulkar he should have played against WI and gotten his 100th 100 out of the way before the Eng & Aus series but you can't blame Dhoni for Tendulkar sitting out of against WI. As for batting, on a tour where the batting simply imploded Dhoni who was a wk-batsman still averaged more than some of our batsmen and IIRC he still averaged near 30 which isn't that bad. Regarding the same set of batsmen doing well in previous tours of Aus & Eng, I can get WI team of 80s to tour Eng and Aus and after they are white-washed make the same comment but it wouldn't make much sense. On previous tours batsmen actually scored runs and scored 100s and on 0-8 fiasco we just 1 centurion in each series. Maybe if the batsmen had scored runs Dhoni would have had something to work with but you can't do much when your batsmen bat like a Sunday league team.

Then what the hell Captain is there for? If nothing more he could have looked a better bat then Saha atleast for once. When Tendulkar is defined a bad captain, nobody looks at the kind of teams he had got on tough tours like Australia 99-2000 - we had players like Devang Gandhi and Jacob Martin(??) making test 11s. But atleast on that tour Sachin himself had performed though India lost 0-3. But for Dhoni worse debacles happened he lost two continous tours 0-4. He himself has been walking wicket, still he is not ready to take show any moral responsibility to resign from test captaincy and compete with others like Saha/Kartik for a test spot.

[Ultimate_Game]

Then what the hell Captain is there for? If nothing more he could have looked a better bat then Saha atleast for once. When Tendulkar is defined a bad captain' date=' nobody looks at the kind of teams he had got on tough tours like Australia 99-2000 - we had players like Devang Gandhi and Jacob Martin(??) making test 11s. But atleast on that tour Sachin himself had performed though India lost 0-3. But for Dhoni worse debacles happened he lost two continous tours 0-4. He himself has been walking wicket, still he is not ready to take show any moral responsibility to resign from test captaincy and compete with others like Saha/Kartik for a test spot.[/quote'] Dhoni should have benched the likes of Laxman on those tours but couldn't. When he tried to sit out the so called seniors in CB Series we all saw what happened. In India seniors are sacrosanct and nobody can touch them, including the cptain. As for Jacob Martin in 99, our so called legends weren't much better than the likes of Jacob Martins and Devang Gandhis. If you want to blame Dhoni for not scoring runs for so called batsmen then go right ahead.

[CricLind]

Dhoni should have benched the likes of Laxman on those tours but couldn't. When he tried to sit out the so called seniors in CB Series we all saw what happened. In India seniors are sacrosanct and nobody can touch them' date=' including the cptain. As for Jacob Martin in 99, our so called legends weren't much better than the likes of Jacob Martins and Devang Gandhis. If you want to blame Dhoni for not scoring runs for so called batsmen then go right ahead.[/quote'] It's ridiculous how people are so happy to assign all the blame 9or a major share of it) to just one person - Sehwag/Gambhir/Tendulkar/Dravid/Laxman, or the captain, or the pacers or Ashwin. The fact is, we lost 0-8! (a HUGE margin) only because the whole team did badly. If people are to be kicked out then it's the whole team that should have been dumped.

[ganeshran]

Dhoni's average keeping is compensated by his above par batting in ODI's but in tests using keeping to justify poor batting and then bringing up batting to justify average keeping doesnt compute. The biggest problem was that Dhoni never stood up for the team in difficult conditions when the team needed him to stay at the crease and put up a fight even if it was in losing cause. It was the case of aaya ram gaya ram with him just like with the rest of the team. If anything the selectors were gutless in not picking up a phone and informing Dhoni that his captaincy is finished. Maybe the next batch of selectors would put the team before the individual and put an end to his captaincy.

[Ultimate_Game]

Dhoni's average keeping is compensated by his above par batting in ODI's but in tests using keeping to justify poor batting and then bringing up batting to justify average keeping doesnt compute. The biggest problem was that Dhoni never stood up for the team in difficult conditions when the team needed him to stay at the crease and put up a fight even if it was in losing cause. It was the case of aaya ram gaya ram with him just like with the rest of the team. If anything the selectors were gutless in not picking up a phone and informing Dhoni that his captaincy is finished. Maybe the next batch of selectors would put the team before the individual and put an end to his captaincy.

Would be tough to do when they can't even tell certain players they can't pick and choose games and series as they please. I sure hope the next selection panel has balls to make tough calls but I'm not holding my breath.

[saneindian]

Then what the hell Captain is there for? If nothing more he could have looked a better bat then Saha atleast for once. When Tendulkar is defined a bad captain' date=' nobody looks at the kind of teams he had got on tough tours like Australia 99-2000 - we had players like [b']Devang Gandhi and Jacob Martin(??) making test 11s. But atleast on that tour Sachin himself had performed though India lost 0-3. But for Dhoni worse debacles happened he lost two continous tours 0-4. He himself has been walking wicket, still he is not ready to take show any moral responsibility to resign from test captaincy and compete with others like Saha/Kartik for a test spot.

In the 8-0 drubbings, Sehwag and Gambhir were no better than those two you named !

[Raghav_12]

Dhoni's average keeping is compensated by his above par batting in ODI's but in tests using keeping to justify poor batting and then bringing up batting to justify average keeping doesnt compute. The biggest problem was that Dhoni never stood up for the team in difficult conditions when the team needed him to stay at the crease and put up a fight even if it was in losing cause. It was the case of aaya ram gaya ram with him just like with the rest of the team. If anything the selectors were gutless in not picking up a phone and informing Dhoni that his captaincy is finished. Maybe the next batch of selectors would put the team before the individual and put an end to his captaincy.

Exactly, a good innings from captain of the team would have shown team that captain is leading from the from and could have changed the whole momentum, something what Ganguly did in Brisbane test 2004 with his knock of 144*. After that India was on driving seat on that tour most of the time. Compare than with the performance of Kaptaan Kool in first test of this series - 6 and 23. Only if he had scored few runs in first innings to support good scores from Sehwag, sachin and Dravid, India would have taken that first innings lead and things could have been different. Not to talk about how Dhoni allowed some 100 runs to Australian tailenders in first innings. Otherwise we had australian pretty much on the mat. U_G wanted to know how Dhoni could have made difference, I gave couple of examples.

[mastana]

"A skipper should be available for his players 24 hours. I don't know why Dhoni does this... But I think situation would have been different, if Laxman had got Dhoni's support," Ganguly said. Probably, it was the toughest decision, tougher than me. I was playing (in a series) and then took the decision. But in his case, he does not have a future in IPL... He was training very hard for about four months at NCA and expecting to play this season when he had to take a call. Hats off to Laxman. He is 200 per cent right in his decision." Dada thinks he had future in ipl.:hysterical::hysterical:

:bow:

[Ultimate_Game]

Exactly, a good innings from captain of the team would have shown team that captain is leading from the from and could have changed the whole momentum, something what Ganguly did in Brisbane test 2004 with his knock of 144*. After that India was on driving seat on that tour most of the time. Compare than with the performance of Kaptaan Kool in first test of this series - 6 and 23. Only if he had scored few runs in first innings to support good scores from Sehwag, sachin and Dravid, India would have taken that first innings lead and things could have been different. Not to talk about how Dhoni allowed some 100 runs to Australian tailenders in first innings. Otherwise we had australian pretty much on the mat. U_G wanted to know how Dhoni could have made difference, I gave couple of examples.

A couple of flaws in your argument... 1. Ganguly was a specialist batsman and his job is to score runs whereas Dhoni is a wk-batsman who bats at 7. It would be unrealistic to expect Dhoni to perform as a specialist batsman. Currently Dhoni averages 37 with the bat which is what I would expect from a no. 7. Anything in 30s should be more than enough from your wk. 2. The surmise that other batsmen would have scored runs had Dhoni scored runs. Dravid scored 3 100s and was outstanding in the Eng series. Did it rub off on his colleagues? Or were the other batsmen saying "Nope that won't do. We only want the captain to score and we wil only take the cue from the captain even if he's not the specialist batsman. We are the specialist batsmen and Dravid is showing us how to bat but we will only follow the captain."