Lurker Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 I am of the understanding that Brahmins used to say that Sanskrit was the language of the only select few. Brahmins thought that it was only their right to learn Sanskrit. They really took advantage of the whole caste system to stay in power. Prakrit, considered a lower form of a group of languages by the Brahmins, was in fact the language of the common people. Disclaimer: No offense intended to any Brahmins. :P I read in Amartya Sen's book that the word Mandarin, the Chinese language, is from Sanskrit word Mantri meaning of course Minister. The word was picked by Chinese travellers. Sanskrit was indeed language of the previlged. I never pursued that line, maybe it is worth checking Mandarin-Mantri-Sanskrit relationship. By the way how odd is that one language, Sanskrit, dies because it was language of previliged. Other language, English, thrives for the exact same reason as people become wannabe previliged :winky::winky:
Laaloo Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 I am of the understanding that Brahmins used to say that Sanskrit was the language of the only select few. Brahmins thought that it was only their right to learn Sanskrit. They really took advantage of the whole caste system to stay in power. Prakrit, considered a lower form of a group of languages by the Brahmins, was in fact the language of the common people. Disclaimer: No offense intended to any Brahmins. :P It depends on what time you are referring to. There were times when even Hindus used to make animal sacrifices. This happened for quite a while. Then of course, some of the rushis gave a concept of offering nariyal/shrifal or a coconut. It has two eyes, a chotli, and you put sindoor ( not sure if this is the word, but its kankoor in gujju) to represent blood. :--D
The Dark Horse Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Never mind an indian language making it to the UN. People nowadays have no affinity to their mother tongues for want of being western/modern/stylish.They think they need to converse in English to be respected. This is the sad and worrying state of our nation.
nikred Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 If Sanskrit had been adopted as the national language' date=' you wouldn't have had the rise of Tamil Nationalism and wouldn't have had to divide States along Linguistic lines rather ease of administration lines (meaning no Telangana like problems).[/quote'] Why would Tamils be not okay with Hindi but somehow be okay with Sanskrit? :dontknow:
ganeshran Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Rather than thrusting Hindi or Sanskrit upon people who dont want to learn it, the government should incentivize the learning of the language to get some additional benefits, if it wants a common unifying language across the nation. Give extra increments to government officers learning hindi (already being done) and some sort of similar measure in the private sector too.
Crookbond Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 That's one reason I do not engage as much these days in linguistic discussions. It just gets to sheer jingoism. Which politician in the past 25 years has ever tried to force Hindi down the throat of non-Hindi speakers? I will take politician of any party. But you got to give me some names and not some baseless apprehension. I say past 25 since most of us would have some recollection of this time frame. With regards to me, I am for a common language in India. What do you see so wrong with that? I am not asking for Tamil to be vanquished, or Telugu for that matter. Heck make Telugu the common language for all I care, but atleast reach out for an internal solution rather looking for an external.....as we always do. I still see no reason. The problem is you want an "internal solution" and I just want a "solution". Internal/External does not matter to me. I am more worried about people making their living rather than worrying about the language they do in. Survival of the fittest. Even English is the business language for Europe - that says quite a lot. Your argument for a look outside may be valid in other cases but in this case it just going with the flow. Before asking for another language you should first create an eco system which helps the language thrive. Rather than thrusting Hindi or Sanskrit upon people who dont want to learn it' date='[b'] the government should incentivize the learning of the language to get some additional benefits, if it wants a common unifying language across the nation. Give extra increments to government officers learning hindi (already being done) and some sort of similar measure in the private sector too. Exactly my point but Lurks says that incentivizing has not worked. IMO, it has not worked because of other reasons and not because of the incentives on offer.
Lurker Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 I still see no reason. The problem is you want an "internal solution" and I just want a "solution". Internal/External does not matter to me.I am more worried about people making their living rather than worrying about the language they do in. Survival of the fittest. Even English is the business language for Europe - that says quite a lot. Your argument for a look outside may be valid in other cases but in this case it just going with the flow. Before asking for another language you should first create an eco system which helps the language thrive. I know. Maybe because as you keep coming back to - Language is a means of earning livelihood. For me it is lot more, it is a means to express your sentiments, talk to people of your country, move around with your fellow citizens, write expressive letters to your parents, enrich your life by reading great scholars, pass on the fine arts to the next generation, indulge in intellactual discussions with a fellow citizen who does not speak your mother tongue, ability to watch an Indian movie of different language without subtitles, ability to create software solutions that can work in an Indian language, meet a fellow Indian in a Hindu temple and not go "Hello, where are you from ?" yada yada yada. But of course none of that reason would make sense to you. No harm done. We have different perspective about life is all. But dont equate that as me, or anyone else, trying to force Hindi down anybody's throat.
Crookbond Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 ^ No Lurker - it does make sense to me personally in terms of sentiment and culture & I do it. For example, I know 4 different Indian languages because I love to be connected to my roots. Personally, I would love to learn a few more languages - I try to pick up as many languages as possible in the places I have lived. However, I also realize that some of my friends do not want to put that effort & I find that OK. I also do not want to pass on my perspective to others just because I have one which was my point btw.
Lurker Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 However, I also realize that some of my friends do not want to put that effort & I find that OK. I also do not want to pass on my perspective to others just because I have one which was my point btw. So let us simply state that - I do not want to learn Hindi. Period. Let us not try to come up with outlandish arguments a la: a) Hindi is being forced upon non-Hindi speakers. By who? When? Where? My question on naming any policitician, of any political party, who has tried to force Hindi in past 25 years remains open. b) English is a means of livelihood. Really? Just like it is the livelihood of all Hindi movie heroes whose work is Hindi and interviews are English? Or Indian cricket team which talks on field in Hindi, and gives off-field interviews in English. By the by, it would probably help my Southie friends to take that chip off the shoulders. I can assure you no Bihari, or Madhya Pradeshi, Chattisgarhi etc is losing his midnight sleep wondering if only he could teach Hindi in Madurai or Nammakal, Warangal etc. Stop acting as if we are dying to thrust the language on you.
Crookbond Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 So let us simply state that - I do not want to learn Hindi. Period. Let us not try to come up with outlandish arguments a la: a) Hindi is being forced upon non-Hindi speakers. By who? When? Where? My question on naming any policitician, of any political party, who has tried to force Hindi in past 25 years remains open. b) English is a means of livelihood. Really? Just like it is the livelihood of all Hindi movie heroes whose work is Hindi and interviews are English? Or Indian cricket team which talks on field in Hindi, and gives off-field interviews in English. By the by, it would probably help my Southie friends to take that chip off the shoulders. I can assure you no Bihari, or Madhya Pradeshi, Chattisgarhi etc is losing his midnight sleep wondering if only he could teach Hindi in Madurai or Nammakal, Warangal etc. Stop acting as if we are dying to thrust the language on you. That is what they do - they say that they do not want to learn Hindi. Most of the times it is driven by their professional goals. For example, some of my friends studying high school in Marathi and Gujarati but they wanted to do their engineering and it can not be done in Gujarati or Marathi. So, it's a natural choice for them to learn English. Now, one of them is in France and he has learnt French - no conspiracy theories there. Reply to a) I agree with you - Did I say anything to that effect? :hmmmm2: Reply to b) Good luck doing that if you want to pursue your profession in Computer Science. So there will be some which work in favor and in some which do not. If you are Hindi professor, you would want to be polished if you are a computer scientist you would not. No excuses, no conspiracy theories at least from me and some of the people I know of.
CandyFloss Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Aflatoon Hai junoon Morning noon Its all about english vinglish :aha:
CSK Fan Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 It depends on what time you are referring to. There were times when even Hindus used to make animal sacrifices. This happened for quite a while. Then of course' date=' some of the rushis gave a concept of offering nariyal/shrifal or a coconut. It has two eyes, a chotli, and you put sindoor ( not sure if this is the word, but its kankoor in gujju) to represent blood. :--D[/quote'] Hindus still make a lot of animal sacrifices. Check Rajarappa temple in bihar, I believe Dhoni himself sacrificed a goat there
Crookbond Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Hindus still make a lot of animal sacrifices. Check Rajarappa temple in bihar' date=' I believe Dhoni himself sacrificed a [b']goat there GOAT == Tendulkar? :yikes:
Laaloo Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Hindus still make a lot of animal sacrifices. Check Rajarappa temple in bihar' date=' I believe Dhoni himself sacrificed a goat there[/quote'] Yeah I know but in that post I was referring to the Vedic times. People do a lot of crazy stuff today in the name of God :king:
Trichromatic Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Hindus still make a lot of animal sacrifices. Check Rajarappa temple in bihar' date=' [b']I believe Dhoni himself sacrificed a goat there Um, no. But yeah, sacrifices are still offered there and the temple is now in Jharkhand.
CSK Fan Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 I disagree....Here is my 2 cents on this....If a language dies....so does a lot of literary work...and by that doesn't really have to be stories and folk tales. We are a diverse country and people from each region might have specific skillsets passed on to them in their own language from generation to generation and by that I don't mean a software engineer from T.N or Hyd teaching his nephew, C language but hope you catch my drift. There could be so much hidden stuff in Latin and Sanskrit texts (pure speculation though)that have been lost over time due to the languages going extinct .speaking a language is not the same as researching them. I do. Most of us "Indians" regale in celebrating our Nobel laureate Rabindra Nath Tagore. But for Bengalis noone else would have read him. That sounds okay to you? You can spend an entire life listening to Katy Perry and Gangam style (:D) and never understand Ekla chalo re. You can extend that analogy to Amrita Pritam, Vijay Tendulkar, Nagasena etc etc. Then again more folks read today have read JK Rawlings (Harry Potter) than Munshi Premchandra :((:(( Though I see the importance of preserving great literary works, I would also like to point out that life always moves ahead, not backwards and that literature, though an important part of culture, is not the be all and end all of civilizations. The world is becoming smaller and smaller and mankind is bound to chose languages which are more simple and everyday. Thats how sanskrit and many regional languages became extinct when India became one nation. Its more to do with the simplicity of use and the adaptation of the language than how rich the language is and how much history it carries The reason english is the no 1 language in the world (well apart from it being the language that US and UK uses) is the ease of its communication and its ability to adapt with time and absorb words of other languages. No other language has this kind of flexibilty. Nowadays we have mediums like the internet which has connected the world and for whatever reason English is the most chosen medium on the net. As we go forward, the world is only going to be more and more connected, through internet, cellphones etc. So the need to have one common language will become urgent and people who are proficient in that language will be at an advantage. So at that point, I dont see the reason to carry a dead regional language as an albatross around one's neck just for the sake of preserving history. If a language goes exitnct, its because it couldnt cope up with a mordern world. Its like a local baniya losing business to a super market or a Panda being endagered in the mordern world. You can prop them up in un-natural, man -made habitats but its not just the same thing. They have become irrelevant in a mordern world
CSK Fan Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Um' date=' no. But yeah, sacrifices are still offered there and the temple is now in Jharkhand.[/quote'] Umm, yes
Trichromatic Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Umm' date=' yes[/quote'] Never heard about that. :dontknow:
Lurker Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Reply to a) I agree with you - Did I say anything to that effect? :hmmmm2: Yes Sir you did, and few others as well. There is a sentiment that Hindi is being forced upon non-Hindi speakers. My question is by who, when, where? If the politicians aint doing it, Hindi speakers are not dying to teach non-Hindi Hindi, who are these faceless monsters from Planet X forcing Hindi? :hmmmm2: Reply to b) Good luck doing that if you want to pursue your profession in Computer Science. So there will be some which work in favor and in some which do not. If you are Hindi professor, you would want to be polished if you are a computer scientist you would not. Yes, because before advent of Comp Science you had little or no resistance to Hindi eh :winky::winky: Lets keep it simple. People don't want to learn Hindi. Admit it. Move on. Dont rationalize it. :agree:
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