Lurker Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Film and Tv serial industry are going to cater public demand .Those who blame people for not making type of films or serials either don't understand business or they just don't want to understand it.Asking Film or serial directors to make certain type of entertainment material is like asking your local halwai not top make samosa or jalebi because they are unhealthy and he should make subway type sandwiches though we know that he will go bankrupt if he do that I suppose thats one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is people help themselves. If the question is where are women oriented movies/roles, if women dont do it why should the men? Not really sure about the jalebi analogy though :winky:
Crookbond Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Film and Tv serial industry are going to cater public demand .Those who blame people for not making type of films or serials either don't understand business or they just don't want to understand it.Asking Film or serial directors to make certain type of entertainment material is like asking your local halwai not top make samosa or jalebi because they are unhealthy and he should make subway type sandwiches though we know that he will go bankrupt if he do that Thnks for naming Ekta kapoor as "local halwai". Made my day! :haha:
Tiger80 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Posted January 11, 2013 I suppose thats one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is people help themselves. If the question is where are women oriented movies/roles, if women dont do it why should the men? Not really sure about the jalebi analogy though :winky: TV serials are women oriented ,Bahu's are shown as saviour of family and business.Wherever they enter they come up with flying colors.Men are shown as idiots which are ether under the direct influence of wife or mother.The only problem is TV serials don't portray women as western feminists want them.They cannot because their biggest audience is housewives and they have to make their audience feel special
Lurker Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 TV serials are women oriented ' date='[b']Bahu's are shown as saviour of family and business.Wherever they enter they come up with flying colors.Men are shown as idiots which are ether under the direct influence of wife or mother.The only problem is TV serials don't portray women as western feminists want them.They cannot because their biggest audience is housewives and they have to make their audience feel special With that kinda nonsense why should I expect the audience, primarily women, to be exactly trailblazers in real world?
Crookbond Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 However, one must note wrt TV serial example is that in a culture there would be different kind of people who set pace. Some will go out of the blue, some will play to the gallery - each will have it's own place. This applies for any society - western or Asian. Henry Ford once said - "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." Ford was an innovator when the others were playing to the gallery. The problem in the Indian context is that people not only do not appreciate innovators but also do not let them survive.
Tiger80 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Posted January 11, 2013 With that kinda nonsense why should I expect the audience' date=' primarily women, to be exactly trailblazers in real world?[/quote'] Actually a lot of Tv serials and films are nonsense.A lot of film just cater male fantasy ,that how an ordinary guy first gets the most beautiful girl, then he fights with all corrupt people, beat 10-20 gunda's at a time and in the end he emerges as winner.So films and TV serials just serve nonsense to different audience ,it nothing has to do their achievement in real world
Lurker Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Actually a lot of Tv serials and films are nonsense.A lot of film just cater male fantasy ' date=that how an ordinary guy first gets the most beautiful girl, then he fights with all corrupt people, beat 10-20 gunda's at a time and in the end he emerges as winner.So films and TV serials just serve nonsense to different audience ,it nothing has to do their achievement in real world Dude, let me ask you a quick question. Without googling, can you name me a couple of Hindi movie that dealt with rape? In keeping with the theme of the thread it would perhaps be worthwhile.
Tiger80 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Posted January 11, 2013 Dude, let me ask you a quick question. Without googling, can you name me a couple of Hindi movie that dealt with rape? In keeping with the theme of the thread it would perhaps be worthwhile. What do you mean by dealt. do you mean where the prime female character is shown as taking revenge or fighting for justice ? if that is so then Damini Kudrat kaa kanoon Zakhmi Aurat Pratighaat are some of films
Lurker Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 What do you mean by dealt. do you mean where the prime female character is shown as taking revenge or fighting for justice ? if that is so then Damini Kudrat kaa kanoon Zakhmi Aurat Pratighaat are some of films Damini - Rajkumar Santoshi Kudrat Ka Kanoon - KC Bokadia Pratighat - N Chandra Zakhmi Aurat - Avtar Bhogal (had to google that one) How about Kal ki Awaaz and Insaaf ka Tarazu?? Both BR Chopra capers. Why dont I see any woman director in that list?? :winky:
The Outsider Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 I am surprised that nobody has still not declared you supporter of rapists for putting these numbers here. I don't digest when western world or western world-wanna be using Delhi incident to bash whole India and Indian culture as most oppressive for females in the world. Just in morning I observed that 2 out of top 3 private banks in India are run by females - ICICI Bank and Axis bank, if you include HSBC's Naina Kidwai that makes it 3 among top banks. This is in total contrast of my perception of US Banking industry which I believed to be highly male dominated. Quick google search has confirmed my perception. In US any of the top 5 banks yet to have a Female CEO in whole history and until last year they never had a female CEO at any of the top 20 banks. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-04/women-will-run-wall-street-before-white-house-gillibrand-says.html http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/news/companies/1109/gallery.highest_paid_bank_ceos/10.html I know banking industry is just one sample only. However number of female represenatives in US senate also shows similar numbers. Total number of femal senators in US till now (right from the start of this system) has been just 39 where you have 100 members each 5 or 6 years (??). Compare this with the scene in Indian north belt which is accussed of being most patriachal, each state has had a very strong female chief minister in each one of these states, barring Bihar, within last 10 years itself - MP (Uma Bharti), UP (Mayawati), Bengal (Mamta Banerjee), Rajasthan (Vasundhara Raje) and Delhi of course (Shiela Dixit). More impotantly I admire the fact that these female rose through the ranks instead of being wives or daughters of some powerful male politician (that's why I kept Rabri Devi out and for same reason I don't take Hillary Clinton as a symbol of female empowerment in US) I admit having females at top positions doesn't make females on street any safer but at the same time physically safer atmoshphere for females doesn't really mean that overall society atmoshphere is condusive for real empowerment of women. Different societies and cultures look at female empowerment differently. It is a mistake when people equate overall conservatism or liberalism (which is in general equally applicable to both male and female population) with female empowerment. Now, I am ready to be branded as regressive for defending India and Indian society in relative comparison of western societies :P What is the sex ratio in India and the US?
maniac Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Damini - Rajkumar Santoshi Kudrat Ka Kanoon - KC Bokadia Pratighat - N Chandra Zakhmi Aurat - Avtar Bhogal (had to google that one) How about Kal ki Awaaz and Insaaf ka Tarazu?? Both BR Chopra capers. Why dont I see any woman director in that list?? :winky: You know what's sad about most of those movies....Either they were portrayed as blood thirsty revenge drama or they had some controversial scenes that kinda generated publicity or curiosity among masses-Another one is Bandit Queen. The actual social message is lost in translation.
Lurker Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 You know what's sad about most of those movies....Either they were portrayed as blood thirsty revenge drama or they had some controversial scenes that kinda generated publicity or curiosity among masses-Another one is Bandit Queen. The actual social message is lost in translation. Damini was not. I thought it dealt very nicely with subject of rape, and how maids are often taken advantage of in Indian homes. And how parents defend their sons knowingly fully well that they have committed a crime like that. Of course having Sunny Deol was smashing :two_thumbs_up: Insaaf ka Tarazu was also very social in its theme actually. In fact I would argue that BR Chopra produced many social cinema (think Nikaah) and it is also a fact of life that BR Chopra made a fraction of movies that his brother Yash Chopra churned out. Ironically, the movies that made Yash Chopra a rich man were all chick flicks. Take it any which way you like.
Prakat Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 You are not being regressive at all. That is a perfectly legitimate question to ask - What has Indian woman done with the rights already granted to them. There is no reason why that question should be deemed as sexist. Like everything else, if there has been a change in policy it should also be revisited to rationalize the results. It can not, and should not, be open ended. For example, it is often mentioned how Bollywood is a male dominated industry and rarely makes woman oriented movies, and yet if you see most of the woman oriented movies (right from Mother India to Mandi) they have been made by male directors. There are a lot of talented female directors but they tend to not make as many female activism movies. Look at Ekta Kapoor. Nobody made more money thanks to the cable revolution in India. And yet she kept churning out cr@p like Saas bhi kabhi bahu thi, Pavitra Rishta, kasauti zindagi ki etc. Is it too much to let her make some half decent female oriented soaps that maybe closer to reality than a large family with woman laden with gold and marrying 3 times :giggle: Not only is that sexist but the root of the problem with the patriarchal mindset. Women's rights is not a baksheesh given to them by the lords and masters. It is a realization of how we are not made superior or inferior by our gender. What's worth questioning is why there has to be even a term for it and it has to be protected by laws because it is so hard to understand when one has been brought up feeling privileged or is too low in their perceived hierarchy that they are left with no choice but to put women down.
Lurker Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Not only is that sexist but the root of the problem with the patriarchal mindset. Women's rights is not a baksheesh given to them by the lords and masters. It is a realization of how we are not made superior or inferior by our gender. What's worth questioning is why there has to be even a term for it and it has to be protected by laws because it is so hard to understand when one has been brought up feeling privileged or is too low in their perceived hierarchy that they are left with no choice but to put women down. Oh jeez. Lets snap out of this whole defensive atitude. Puhlease. This patronizing atitude of lets run to the defence and down with patriachal society, does more damage than good.
Tiger80 Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 Damini - Rajkumar Santoshi Kudrat Ka Kanoon - KC Bokadia Pratighat - N Chandra Zakhmi Aurat - Avtar Bhogal (had to google that one) How about Kal ki Awaaz and Insaaf ka Tarazu?? Both BR Chopra capers. Why dont I see any woman director in that list?? :winky: 3 points I just want to say for it 1) These films were from late 80s or early 90s ,I don't know how many famous women film directors where there at that time 2) I don't think that these men made these films because they care about women issue's ,they just made them to make money.Late 80s and early 90s was time when there was market for these type of films and they were cashing undercurrent of that time. 3) Men are known to take risks much more than women.So women directors will choose safe subjects rather than risky one. The fact is whether it is men or women they all are business to make money.They all will take decisions which they find in best interest of their business.
DomainK Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Woman Director: Tanuja Chandra Movie based on rape: Dushman. Superb Ghazal: Chitthi na koi sandesh, jaane wo kaunsa desh.
DomainK Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 BTW I learned about the two finger test of rape today. Shocking that the method is still used in India and is admissible in a court of law.
Tiger80 Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 Delhi gang rape accused lived on margins of India's economic boom BADAUN/NEW DELHI: In a village in Uttar Pradesh, a woman sits hunched on the ground in a green shawl, visibly weak and shivering in the January cold. She says she has not eaten for days, and neither have her five young children. She has never heard of Manmohan Singh, India's prime minister, having never ventured further from her village than a nearby market town, and ekes out a living working in potato fields on other people's land. Her eldest son left home when he was 11. He never returned, and the woman thought he was dead. The first news she got of him was when police from New Delhi turned up at her brick hut to say he had been arrested for the gang rape and death of a student, a crime whose brutality stunned India. In an interview with Reuters, the mother of the juvenile, the youngest of six members of the gang accused of the attack, recalled the son who left home five or six years ago for the bright lights, and seemed stunned by the accusation against him. "Today, the infamy he earned is eating me up," his mother said as villagers stood and stared. "I can't even sit with two other people in the village because of the shame that my son has brought to the family." A 23-year-old physiotherapy student was beaten and raped on a moving bus in the Indian capital on December 16. She was left bleeding on a highway and died two weeks later from internal injuries. The five men who have been charged with rape and murder are all expected to plead not guilty. One says police tortured him. The sixth member of the gang, the woman's son, is being processed as a juvenile and has not been charged. He will be tried separately. Police have said they are conducting bone tests to determine his age as they suspect he may be over 18 years old. Reuters is withholding his name for this story. The trial of the five men is due to start within weeks. "Black magic" It is from a life of rural penury that the youth sought to escape, one of about two million Indians who migrate to cities every year, chasing an economic boom that has propelled India for the past two decades but has trickled down slowly to its poor. Conversations with relatives, neighbours and police show the extent to which the accused lived on the margins of the city's emerging prosperity, holding menial jobs and living in a slum. Their lives stand in contrast with that of the victim. She was also from a humble background but funded her studies by taking a job in one of the call centres that are a hallmark of modern India's economy and have helped build an aspirational new middle class. According to his mother, the youth joined a group of other village boys travelling to New Delhi, found work in a roadside eatery and - for the first year - used to send 600 rupees a month back to his family. After he stopped sending money, his mother never heard from him again. At first she thought he might have been forced into bonded labour. Later, she presumed he was dead. A couple of months before the rape, she consulted a Hindu holy man about her son, whom she remembered as a good boy. "The holy man told me that someone has practiced some black magic on him, but that he would come back," she said. Living on the breadline and with a husband who is mentally ill, the mother works in fields with her daughters to feed her family. Halfway through the conversation with Reuters, she fainted, apparently from hunger, and had to be carried to bed. About half of her village are landless labourers, and about a quarter of all men migrate to cities in search of work, according to farmer Vijay Pal. "Sing-song voice" The details of the boy's life after he left his village are patchy. Even his fellow accused did not know his real name and called him by an assumed name, a senior police officer told Reuters. Police described him as a "freelancer" at a Delhi bus station, cleaning buses and running errands for drivers. "He was a helper on buses who would solicit customers by calling out to them in a sing-song tone," the officer said. He was popular with the contractors who ran the bus services and frequently changed jobs. It was during this time that he met Ram Singh, the main accused in the case, whom he had gone to meet on the day of the attack in the hope of getting back money that Singh had borrowed from him, police said. The juvenile went to Singh's house to claim 8,000 rupees but Singh invited him to stay for food instead, according to a police report. After the attack, police say they found the juvenile's blood-stained clothes on Singh's roof. In an interview with Reuters, the friend of the victim who had accompanied her on the bus, and who was also beaten, said the juvenile had beckoned the pair to board. "There was a young boy who was standing at the door of the bus and calling passengers in," the friend said by telephone. "He had a light moustache, very sharp eyes and a very sweet demeanour. He was thin and was calling out to people saying 'come sister, please sit'." When they started assaulting the victim's friend, the juvenile "was one of the first to attack me", he said. Singh and three of the other accused lived in a poor pocket in the otherwise largely middle-class Delhi neighbourhood of RK Puram, whose wide streets and tree-lined boulevards contrast with the dark lanes, communal taps and open sewers where Singh lived. Many of the people who live there are migrants, working as electricians, auto-rickshaw drivers, day labourers, bus drivers, mechanics and street vendors. Singh was a bus driver, despite an accident in 2009 that fractured his right arm so badly that doctors had to insert a rod to support it. He appeared on a reality television show in a compensation dispute with a bus owner, who in turn accused Singh of "drunken, negligent and rash driving". Singh's neighbours describe him as a heavy drinker with a temper. One young woman said he used to get embroiled in violent rows and a relative recalls a physical altercation with her husband. "I will make it big" India's rapid growth over the past two decades, kickstarted by a period of free-market economic reforms, accelerated the process of urbanisation. The world of the juvenile's mother is still one where carts drawn by horses and bullocks ply the lanes, and dung cakes are stacked in villages to be used as a fuel. But in the cities, the old barriers of caste and gender are being eroded as India prospers. It is in this world that Vinay Sharma, another of the accused, wanted to make his mark, and aspired to the kind of life that the victim was striving for. Passionate about boxing and body-building, Sharma earned $55 a month as a helper in a gym and wanted to enrol on a correspondence course, according to his mother and neighbours in the slum where he lived. "He always used to say 'I will make it big in life'," said his mother, Champa Devi. Like the juvenile and the victim, Sharma's family is originally from Uttar Pradesh, a state of some 200 million people where poverty is entrenched. "When the police came around 4 or 4.30 in the evening, he was at home", his mother said. "I ran after him when they were taking him away. They would not even tell me why. Even he kept insisting 'Ma, go back home, nothing will happen to me. They are just taking me to ask some questions. I will be back soon.' But that was the last I saw of him." http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Delhi-gang-rape-accused-lived-on-margins-of-Indias-economic-boom/articleshow/17995499.cms
Malcolm Merlyn Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 BTW I learned about the two finder test of rape today. Shocking that the method is still used in India and is admissible in a court of law. WHAT????
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