Where are India's next test openers?

[bharat297]

Yeah, Harmeet should surely be part of the A tours in the coming year - think India has 3 lined up. And I will try to get hold of U-19 footage to watch him more closely. You are a very good observer of cricket from your past posts though you tend to go underground for very long times and if you are rating Harmeet as much he is surely worth a closer look than I have given, prejudiced with my thoughts about left arm darters that the nation is producing en masse.

Hahahaha ! Yeah you're right I do tend to go underground for a little while, but I always come back :two_thumbs_up:

[Old guy]

Agree on some points. I agree re: Ishant. He needs to learn how to setup batsmen and bowl to a plan. However my point with Ranji is this. If the pitches had the variety of international pitches and the pace and bounce and the % of high quality players were greater then yes Ranji would be beneficial. But playing against mediocre players doesn't always help you to get ready to play against better players. It's not a nice linear progression. Thats the problem with our domestic comp. I think average players benefit from Ranji because they improve but good players don't get much better.

what i believe is if some one is so much better then rest that his quality decreases by playing against them then he should able to dominate them no matter what..

[Old guy]

Hahahaha ! Yeah you're right I do tend to go underground for a little while' date=' but I always come back :two_thumbs_up:[/quote'] dont disappear now even if we dont agree on everything its fun discussing :P

[CG]

I'm not disagreeing with you on that. I'm not simply "fooled" by Ian Chappell. I dont think Unmukt Chand is ready for internationals but in the case of Harmeet Singh I think he's an exception. I dont see another Indian spinner that possesses his skills and talent and he's done Ok in Ranji so far. Like I said, I think Harmeet Singh will benefit more from A-tours than Ranji Trophy. I think when you have standout talents like Harmeet Singh then maybe you should put them in environments that will prepare them for international cricket. I dont think Ranji will. Our domestic competition is far too diluted. Yes the under-19's batsmen weren't great but still there are aspects of his bowling that are irrespective of the batsmen. His release, wrist position, seam position, bounce, turn and flight were quite impressive on Australian pitches that weren't dustbowls. Right now Indian spinners are struggling so I think sometimes you need to show some common sense and make exceptions for talented cricketers.

Agree on some points. I agree re: Ishant. He needs to learn how to setup batsmen and bowl to a plan. However my point with Ranji is this. If the pitches had the variety of international pitches and the pace and bounce and the % of high quality players were greater then yes Ranji would be beneficial. But playing against mediocre players doesn't always help you to get ready to play against better players. It's not a nice linear progression. Thats the problem with our domestic comp. I think average players benefit from Ranji because they improve but good players don't get much better.

I think you are overhyping harmeet.He is a good prospect I agree .But let him play a season and do well agianst good ranji batsman.He strength is flight and dip he gets,He is not a big turner of the ball and i did not see any drift .He can work on his drift .He played in irani trophy where he got wickets of tailenders with flight who were trying to slog him so he has potential to do well even in dc.We have to wait and he is in the selectors radar as he got a game in irani trophy.

[bharat297]

what i believe is if some one is so much better then rest that his quality decreases by playing against them then he should able to dominate them no matter what..

Because there are a number of factors that impact how someone gets wickets. Pitches, match situation, field settings, opposition batsmen's approach, etc. I feel that domestic competition dictates a certain style of play that means that statistics aren't always indicative of how someone would perform at international level. Lets say I had to choose between Ashok Dinda and Varun Aaron for a tour of South Africa (assume it was only between those 2). Dinda has a much much better Ranji record and has learnt to get batsmen at Ranji level out. Aaron has not. His first-class record is pretty bad, yet the way he bowls (140km, skiddy and angling in to the right hander or away from the left) with a good seam position would be more likely to get wickets on South African pitches than Dinda.

[bharat297]

I think you are overhyping harmeet.He is a good prospect I agree .But let him play a season and do well agianst good ranji batsman.He strength is flight and dip he gets,He is not a big turner of the ball and i did not see any drift .He can work on his drift .He played in irani trophy where he got wickets of tailenders with flight who were trying to slog him so he has potential to do well even in dc.We have to wait and he is in the selectors radar as he got a game in irani trophy.

Probably is overhype but I can't see a better spinner at the moment in Indian cricket. If there were a healthy line of genuine spinners then yes make Harmeet wait but I dont see it.

[Old guy]

Because there are a number of factors that impact how someone gets wickets. Pitches, match situation, field settings, opposition batsmen's approach, etc. I feel that domestic competition dictates a certain style of play that means that statistics aren't always indicative of how someone would perform at international level. Lets say I had to choose between Ashok Dinda and Varun Aaron for a tour of South Africa (assume it was only between those 2). Dinda has a much much better Ranji record and has learnt to get batsmen at Ranji level out. Aaron has not. His first-class record is pretty bad, yet the way he bowls (140km, skiddy and angling in to the right hander or away from the left) with a good seam position would be more likely to get wickets on South African pitches than Dinda.

they both deserve to be in team one has performed and is mediocre other has not even performed i will go with some one like shami or pankaj who have performance to back up there talent :winky:

[bharat297]

they both deserve to be in team one has performed and is mediocre other has not even performed i will go with some one like shami or pankaj who have performance to back up there talent :winky:

This was a hypothetical example where there were only 2 choices and you had to pick between the 2.

[bharat297]

dont disappear now even if we dont agree on everything its fun discussing :P

Agreed on that! I like talking to people that have different views. I learn a lot of new things from times when I get it wrong. If everyone agreed all the time it would be pretty boring.

[Old guy]

This was a hypothetical example where there were only 2 choices and you had to pick between the 2.

but that situation does not matches the discussion we are having here my point was a player should only qualify for selection after performance and after thatu judge weather guy is good or not what u have been saying is people need to be picked on talent alone even if they never performed and scenario u gave aaron and dinda all this will prove is both wont perform which is exactly what im saying we need players who have performed at domestic level and are talented aaron played for us and flopped in tests ...while yadav who had both talent and performance played well in previous two tests before aaron debuted!

[CG]

but that situation does not matches the discussion we are having here my point was a player should only qualify for selection after performance and after thatu judge weather guy is good or not what u have been saying is people need to be picked on talent alone even if they never performed and scenario u gave aaron and dinda all this will prove is both wont perform which is exactly what im saying we need players who have performed at domestic level and are talented aaron played for us and flopped in tests ...while yadav who had both talent and performance played well in previous two tests before aaron debuted!

aaron took 3 wickets.

[Old guy]

so with aaron and dinda case pick any one they both will fail for different reason anyway this aaaron and dinda discussion it depends on case by case this case i will pick aaron cos he is younger and if certain corrections are made he can be good bowler .. had u compared aaron to lets say awana i would have went with awana

[Old guy]

aaron took 3 wickets.

how much does ishant takes in every match? :winky:

[The Outsider]

how much does ishant takes in every match? :winky:

Doesn't matter - shoulders nahin drop hone chahiye.:icflove:

[bharat297]

No sabby what I meant was if you had to choose between dinda and aaron for say a tour of England or south Africa, even before either of them played internationals you can tell which kind of bowler will succeed and which one won't. I was using that as an illustration to show that stats are misleading sometimes. Because bowlers with talent and potential have the ability to improve their stats. In some cases the skills a bowler picks up to improve his stats at ranji don't necessarily translate to international cricket.

[Old guy]

Doesn't matter - shoulders nahin drop hone chahiye.:icflove:

:hysterical:

[Old guy]

No sabby what I meant was if you had to choose between dinda and aaron for say a tour of England or south Africa' date=' even before either of them played internationals you can tell which kind of bowler will succeed and which one won't. I was using that as an illustration to show that stats are misleading sometimes. Because bowlers with talent and potential have the ability to improve their stats. In some cases the skills a bowler picks up to improve his stats at ranji don't necessarily translate to international cricket.[/quote'] yep i get what ur saying.. but i believe if someo ne is good enough for test cricket he is ognna destroy ranji sides :two_thumbs_up: yadav did,zack did ,bhajji did`when he got into team...

[rkt.india]

But playing against mediocre players doesn't always help you to get ready to play against better players.

Our doestic batsmen I guess are better equipped ot handle spin then pace so they are not mediocre against spin and that is the reason if there are no real square turners our spinners struggle in domestic cricket.

[CG]

how much does ishant takes in every match? :winky:

How does it matter.Aaron has played one test and took 3 1st innings wickets and 2nd innings spinners cleaned up wi.

[Old guy]

How does it matter.

it does..