dangerman1985 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Wrong again, Sami's pace was mostly late 140s to mid 150s so the effort balls touched 160s. But it was his poor line and length which will be remembered most I am afraid. And of course the speed gun in the vidoes over can be wrong, but the ball bowled to Dravid was quick, really quick, you don't need speed gun to measure that because it really hurried Dravid. no you are wrong again. sami was never in the mid 150s . he was mostly mid 140 to late 140. and if the speed gun in videos over can be wrong then it can be wrong in case of akhtar's case too . Link to comment
bharat297 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 no you are wrong again. sami was never in the mid 150s . he was mostly mid 140 to late 140. and if the speed gun in videos over can be wrong then it can be wrong in case of akhtar's case too . No but the speed gun was actually determined to be wrong for Sami's case, that's why it was not counted in the records. Of course Akthar's could have been wrong but you're just speculating. By that line of reasoning, every speed gun could be wrong. We can only go by what was recorded and verified. Link to comment
panther Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 no you are wrong again. sami was never in the mid 150s . he was mostly mid 140 to late 140. and if the speed gun in videos over can be wrong then it can be wrong in case of akhtar's case too . Lol sami was as fast as shoaib between his debut and 2006. Link to comment
dangerman1985 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Lol sami was as fast as shoaib between his debut and 2006. Ok if that makes u happy:haha: Link to comment
express bowling Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 No they are not. Mohammad Sami still bowls quicker than these guys. You need fitness and stamina to bowl fast man and so far Yadav and Varun has struggled with their fintess. As I said yesterday let us come back in 2020 and discuss the speed of these two bowlers InshaAllah. I doubt they will be around, but time will tell. And Wahab Riaz, Mohammad Talha and even Mohammad Irfan are currently bowling as fast as these guys so stop overhyping your players and try think a bit more objective. Your point about longevity is true and Aaron and Umesh would have to prove it. Md. Irfan is not as fast as Umesh and Aaron. Your own commentators were saying that he usully bowls 135/138 k. His pace actually dropped in the odis. Even at their respective fastest, Umesh and Aaron bowl 142 k to 152 k while Md. Irfan bowls 140 k to 146 k. Not many know about Md. Talha. Let him bowl and show us. Riaz is again not as fast ,although maybe close. Point is-- India is producing fast bowlers now. Pakistan did it before also. It is immaterial who is marginally quicker. I personally prefer 135 k to 147 k bowlers over 145 k to 155 k pacers because the express pacers get injured more often and focus only on pace rather than taking wickets. Now, the primary objective of both countries should be to produce pacers close to Wasim's ability. I have a lot of respect for that guy. Link to comment
ExpressPace Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 The problem starts at the grass root level. Indians play with heavy tennis bowl growing up which is only good for batsmen but in pakistan there is tapeball cricket at grass root level. As soon as you apply the tape on the ball, your bowling speed goes up significantly hence it feels good to bowl. And as soon as tape starts tearing, you start to see the ball swinging. This is one of the reason i think pakistani kids love bowling more than batting and as a result we produce good pacers time after time. Link to comment
express bowling Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 this is a sensible post. I am a Pak fan but i mostly agree. Pace can be helpful but it isn't everything, otherwise someone like Glenn mcgrath would never have been so successfull. Regarding Imran's answer, i disagree. Pakistan has produced quality fast bowlers because they had someone to look up to. Wasim and Waqar both looked up to Imran. Plenty of kids were influenced by wasim, waqar and Imran and that's why pakistan continues to produce talented fast bowlers. (shoaib, asif, amir, even though asif and amir wasted their talent). Kids in India, on the other hand, look up to Tendulkar, and its partly why india has better batsmen. Pakistan has simply produced better bowlers because of greater emphasis on bowling while India has had a massive advantage in batting. You are spot on about the role model part. Imran was a mentor too and had inculcated the fast bowling culture in Pakistan cricket. After watching Umesh and Aaron getting chance in the national team , because they are fast, many more domestic pacers are bowling with effort and generating pace. Link to comment
Dumbbells Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Watch out for shammi ahmed. Wasim rated him as quick as Umesh or Varun. Hoping to c him bowl in next odi. Link to comment
Ahmed Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Your point about longevity is true and Aaron and Umesh would have to prove it. Md. Irfan is not as fast as Umesh and Aaron. Your own commentators were saying that he usully bowls 135/138 k. His pace actually dropped in the odis. Even at their respective fastest, Umesh and Aaron bowl 142 k to 152 k while Md. Irfan bowls 140 k to 146 k. Not many know about Md. Talha. Let him bowl and show us. Riaz is again not as fast ,although maybe close. Point is-- India is producing fast bowlers now. Pakistan did it before also. It is immaterial who is marginally quicker. I personally prefer 135 k to 147 k bowlers over 145 k to 155 k pacers because the express pacers get injured more often and focus only on pace rather than taking wickets. Now, the primary objective of both countries should be to produce pacers close to Wasim's ability. I have a lot of respect for that guy. Our own commentators, especially Rameez and Wasim have no clue about pakistani bowlers as they don't follow the domestic cricket. And it's about time India produced some real quick bowlers don't you think? With all the facilities, money invested and registred players you guys should have produced many many fast bowlers. So there is a problem which has to be looked at. Could also be, like it's in Pakistan, that deserving players don't get the chance but only sifarishis? Link to comment
JaFanatic Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Watch out for shammi ahmed. Wasim rated him as quick as Umesh or Varun. Hoping to c him bowl in next odi. no shami isnt:secret: Link to comment
TestPlayer Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 We gotta give Shami a long run in the Indian team. He shouldn't be dropped after a single match if he doesn't do well. This guy has got some talent and should be given opportunity and the highest level. Link to comment
express bowling Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Our own commentators, especially Rameez and Wasim have no clue about pakistani bowlers as they don't follow the domestic cricket. And it's about time India produced some real quick bowlers don't you think? With all the facilities, money invested and registred players you guys should have produced many many fast bowlers. So there is a problem which has to be looked at. Could also be, like it's in Pakistan, that deserving players don't get the chance but only sifarishis? True, we should have produced many more quicks. At club level and even lower, guys just want to bowl fast. Why were they not encouraged at state level is s mystery. Maybe everything was run by batsmen and they just wanted to make life easier for their own kind. The good news is -- a lot of young quicks are coming through in the last 3 or 4 years and this year it has been the best at state level, perhaps because pacers have been encouraged by Umesh and Aaron. Shami Ahmed is also quite quick and there are 2 or 3 more in the wings. All this is pointing to a lot more quicks in the future. Speed guns at even lower levels have helped. Link to comment
Vilander Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 all this genetics bull , if thats a fact why does pak fare so bad against weaker india in athletics and wrestling, boxing etc. we practically owned them in saarc games. what bull crap from imran Link to comment
Vilander Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 actually there was lots of discrepancy over akthars 160 + delivery it was oddly a 1 fast delivery among other slower deliveries, in 2003, if i remember right a lower order bat( lamb ?) nonchalantly flicked it to 3rd man. When tait bowled his 160 the ball bounced and beat the batsman and went well over for the keeper to reach and more over he looked very fast in that spell. One never knows, besides this speed is just the speed at which the hand releases the ball not the speed at which it hits the bat there could be other variables like seam position that will affect the actual speed of the ball when it meets the bat. Link to comment
the don Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 actually there was lots of discrepancy over akthars 160 + delivery it was oddly a 1 fast delivery among other slower deliveries' date=' in 2003, if i remember right a lower order bat( lamb ?) nonchalantly flicked it to 3rd man. When tait bowled his 160 the ball bounced and beat the batsman and went well over for the keeper to reach and more over he looked very fast in that spell. One never knows, besides this speed is just the speed at which the hand releases the ball not the speed at which it hits the bat there could be other variables like seam position that will affect the actual speed of the ball when it meets the bat.[/quote'] lol, try and watch some cricket before you dedicate a full paragraph to complete bullcrap , shoaib bowled plenty of deliveries over 95mph in that worldcup , so stop crying :haha: Link to comment
Vilander Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 lol' date=' try and watch some cricket before you dedicate a full paragraph to complete bullcrap , shoaib bowled plenty of deliveries over 95mph in that worldcup , so stop crying :haha:[/quote'] 95 yes, but we are talking 100. 95 even umesh and finn do it today. Link to comment
the don Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 95 yes' date=' but we are talking 100. [b']95 even umesh and finn do it today. :hysterical: i said over 95 , im talking deliveries in the range of 97-98 mph , and big lol @ finn and umesh, they both are no way close to the express bowler category sorry , that would just be shoaib , lee and thompson , maybe tait and zahid if they ever bowled the same pace in tests . Link to comment
the don Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 95 yes' date=' but we are talking 100. 95 even umesh and finn do it today.[/quote'] btw whats with the ifs and buts , we can only go by what we have seen and im afriad to say that pakistans slowest bowler i-e umar gul has bowled faster than indias quickest bowler ishanth in this series on the same speed guns , not that speed is any measure of success , i would much rather have a combo of speed and swing ala junaid . Link to comment
Vilander Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 :hysterical: i said over 95 ' date=' im talking deliveries in the range of 97-98 mph , and big lol @ finn and umesh, they both are no way close to the express bowler category sorry , that would just be shoaib , lee and thompson , maybe tait and zahid if they ever bowled the same pace in tests .[/quote'] finn and umesh are not express i have never claimed the contrary. lee,tait are/were express at some point, sohaib although could never sustain speed due to lack of fitness,used to bowl a few express deliveries. Zahid who ? but Sohaib's 160+ was probably a error cause he did not bowl anything close to that in the world cup otherwise. indians bowl faster than pakis as of now...probably its because of malnutrition problem in pak :cantstop: Link to comment
Vilander Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 btw whats with the ifs and buts ' date=' we can only go by what we have seen and im afriad to say that pakistans slowest bowler i-e umar gul has bowled faster than indias quickest bowler ishanth in this series on the same speed guns , not that speed is any measure of success , i would much rather have a combo of speed and swing ala junaid .[/quote'] sorry not present series umesh,aaron are not playing. Link to comment
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