Should Dhoni be allowed to lead the side at the 2015 WC

[CG]

Dude the title of the thread is "Should Dhoni be allowed to lead the side at the 2015 WC" and you are saying I don't get it that you are talking about T20s and Tests? :facepalm: Read my posts again and I was talking about odis and WC 2015.

It does not matter ,I asked you a simple question just answer it if you like.

[maniac]

A clear failure as a leader is the best bet in odis' date=' and yup I would like to shield the brightest prospect from the dressing room politics which can bring down Kohli. As I mentioned earlier I would give Kohli a fresh team without any baggage else Dhoni is the best bet to continue.[/quote'] So are you assuming that the likes of Gambhir and Sehwag will continue playing till 2015? because clearly if they up their performance to acheive that they will clearly be ahead of Dhoni in the pecking order given his recent debacles..yes,even in the ODI format. So if Sehwag and Gambhir are dumped soon enough which looks like the best descoion for Indian cricket given their recent form...wouldn't it make sense to have Kohli or who ever to lead the side before the 2015 WC? Once again don't say the whoever as Dhoni because we are talking about his recent failures too remember?

[Ultimate_Game]

It does not matter ' date='I asked you a simple question just answer it if you like.[/quote'] And I did answer it simply. Yes, Dhoni is the best bet to lead India at the 2015 WC.

[Ultimate_Game]

So are you assuming that the likes of Gambhir and Sehwag will continue playing till 2015? because clearly if they up their performance to acheive that they will clearly be ahead of Dhoni in the pecking order given his recent debacles..yes,even in the ODI format. So if Sehwag and Gambhir are dumped soon enough which looks like the best descoion for Indian cricket given their recent form...wouldn't it make sense to have Kohli or who ever to lead the side before the 2015 WC? Once again don't say the whoever as Dhoni because we are talking about his recent failures too remember?

If all the seniors are dumped (Sehwag, Gambhir, Tendulkar etc.) I would hand over the captaincy to Kohli so that he can have a fresh team and can lead the same without worrying about internal politics and back-stabbings. If not (since Gambhir is still in the odi squad against Eng) which is more likely to happen, I would have Dhoni lead till 2015 Wc with Kohli as the vice-captain and hand over the reigns to Kohli post 2015 WC.

[maniac]

If all the seniors are dumped (Sehwag' date=' Gambhir, Tendulkar etc.) I would hand over the captaincy to Kohli so that he can have a fresh team and can lead the same without worrying about internal politics and back-stabbings. If not (since Gambhir is still in the odi squad against Eng) which is more likely to happen, I would have Dhoni lead till 2015 Wc with Kohli as the vice-captain and hand over the reigns to Kohli post 2015 WC.[/quote'] So let me get this straight,you do admit that dumping Sehwag and Gambhir is the right direction to go followed by giving Kohli the reigns as the captain....Cool and glad we are on the same page. SRT has already retired and looks like Sehwag has been dumped but since when has Gambhir become so big that just his mere presence needs to be countered by having Dhoni as the captain?makes no sense...So are you saying one individual who himself is struggling to save his spot is determinant to how the future of this team is decided.

[diga]

And I did answer it simply. Yes' date=' Dhoni is the best bet to lead India at the 2015 WC.[/quote'] Would you take the 2015 ODI world cup win for all the ODI series losses & the test losses ?

[Ultimate_Game]

Would you take the 2015 ODI world cup win for all the ODI series losses & the test losses ?

Yes I would. For me the hierarchy is pretty clear as follows... 1. ODI World Cup 2. Test series in Aus 3. Test series in SA 4. Test series away in Eng/Pak/NZ/SL 5. Home test wins 6. T20 Cup win 7. Asia Cup/Champions Trophy 8. Bi-lateral odi series. Based on that yeah I would take 2015 WC win over anything else.

[Ultimate_Game]

So let me get this straight,you do admit that dumping Sehwag and Gambhir is the right direction to go followed by giving Kohli the reigns as the captain....Cool and glad we are on the same page. SRT has already retired and looks like Sehwag has been dumped but since when has Gambhir become so big that just his mere presence needs to be countered by having Dhoni as the captain?makes no sense...So are you saying one individual who himself is struggling to save his spot is determinant to how the future of this team is decided.

I wouldn't want Kohli to get involved in any infighting at all. I see Kohli as long term captain of the future. The guy's just 23 and I don't want him to get into the middle of infighting between so called seniors. Either way he will lose. Best option is for him to get the reign of the side post 2015 WC when he would be 25, will have a fresh team and wouldn't be deemed hostile to any group/senior(s).

[maniac]

Yes I would. For me the hierarchy is pretty clear as follows... 1. ODi World Cup 2. Test series in Aus 3. Test series in SA 4. Test series away in Eng/Pak/NZ/SL 5. Home test wins 6. T20 Cup win 7. Asia Cup/Champions Trophy 8. Bi-lateral odi series. Based on that yeah I would take 2015 WC win over anything else.

So U_G based on your priorities...how come Dhoni is stiill the most suitable player to lead the team or does point No 1 outweigh everything else for you

[diga]

Yes I would. For me the hierarchy is pretty clear as follows... 1. ODi World Cup 2. Test series in Aus 3. Test series in SA 4. Test series away in Eng/Pak/NZ/SL 5. Home test wins 6. T20 Cup win 7. Asia Cup/Champions Trophy 8. Bi-lateral odi series. Based on that yeah I would take 2015 WC win over anything else.

Ok.. that's your viewpoint. But I guess majority here on ICF would want India to win atleast 75% of its matches & if ODI worldcup win is as a result of that, so be it. It's not the end of all.

[Ultimate_Game]

So U_G based on your priorities...how come Dhoni is stiill the most suitable player to lead the team or does point No 1 outweigh everything else for you

I have already explained my rationale in earlier posts I believe :dontknow: Dhoni for the time being with Kohli as the vice-captain who takes over the reign post 2015 WC.

[Ultimate_Game]

Ok.. that's your viewpoint. But I guess majority here on ICF would want India to win atleast 75% of its matches & if ODI worldcup win is as a result of that' date=' so be it. It's not the end of all.[/quote'] Fair enough. As I said that's my hierarchy and I can't talk for others. Who knows some folks might even have T20 Cup or even IPL top of the list but for me World Cup is the biggest thing out there as that is what gets you the title of "World Champions", nothing else does.

[maniac]

I wouldn't want Kohli to get involved in any infighting at all. I see Kohli as long term captain of the future. The guy's just 23 and I don't want him to get into the middle of infighting between so called seniors. Either way he will lose. Best option is for him to get the reign of the side post 2015 WC when he would be 25' date=' will have a fresh team and wouldn't be deemed hostile to any group/senior(s).[/quote'] Ok I am out.....You keep bringing up this infighting theory as if it is the major reason for our debacles....Dhoni has failed on the field as a captain and judging by that he needs to be dumped...period....I have numerous tangible points as to why Dhoni needs to be dumped but I seriously cannot argue against theories that media keeps bringing up...so I clearly can't counter that...Let's debate when you have something more concrete PS:I do partly beleive dressing room politics happen but that is not even 10-15% accountable to Dhoni's failures.

[Ultimate_Game]

Ok I am out.....You keep bringing up this infighting theory as if it is the major reason for our debacles....Dhoni has failed on the field as a captain and judging by that he needs to be dumped...period....I have numerous tangible points as to why Dhoni needs to be dumped but I seriously cannot argue against theories that media keeps bringing up...so I clearly can't counter that...Let's debate when you have something more concrete PS:I do partly beleive dressing room politics happen but that is not even 10-15% accountable to Dhoni's failures.

If a team is not united and is playing as a cohesive unit, they are not going to win much. As for Kohli as a new captain, I wouldn't want to bring in a new young captain, and saddle him with all the baggage of groupism and infighting within the team where whatever decision he or selectors make, he can't win. If he benches Gambhir/Sehwag he will be termed anti-North (his own state), if he retains them in the team he will lose the other folks. Best thing for him and India in the longer run is for him to be made captain once Sehwag/Gambhir have been dropped. How is this not a "tangible point" :dontknow: I don't want a young captain to start off by looking behind his back at every corner. I want him to lead the team for a long time to come without the additional baggage that the team is saddled with for the time being. If Kohli gets dragged into this fiasco right now he may not even last till 2015 WC knowing how desi mentality of bringing down others work.

[diga]

Fair enough. As I said that's my hierarchy and I can't talk for others. Who knows some folks might even have T20 Cup or even IPL top of the list but for me World Cup is the biggest thing out there as that is what gets you the title of "World Champions"' date=' nothing else does.[/quote'] Note that most countries in future will increase their focus on T20's and Tests.. ODI cricket is no longer the priority. World press will call T20 world cup champions as the "world champions" & ODI world cup/ODI champions will hardly be cared for & will mostly be covered by the desi press

[Ultimate_Game]

Note that most countries in future will increase their focus on T20's and Tests.. ODI cricket is no longer the priority. World press will call T20 world cup champions as the "world champions" & ODI world cup/ODI champions will hardly be cared for & will mostly be covered by the desi press

That may be so but I grew up in 90s & 2000s and for me the biggest thing has been the World Cup. Maybe for the future generation T20 Cup & IPL would be the biggest things. Who knows :dontknow:

[saneindian]

UG going by the murmurs in the media, GG and Sehwag have shed their captaincy ambitions for the time being and are supporting Kohli as the new captain. Kohli apparently has now jumped into the Delhi camp from the Dhoni camp. Could be a potential reason why Kohli has totally lost his focus.

[maniac]

UG going by the murmurs in the media, GG and Sehwag have shed their captaincy ambitions for the time being and are supporting Kohli as the new captain. Kohli apparently has now jumped into the Delhi camp from the Dhoni camp. Could be a potential reason why Kohli has totally lost his focus.

Hope you meant that as sarcasm because I wouldnt put the substantiating theories to support Dhoni's captaincy run beyond most fanboys(Again not saying you are one)

[saneindian]

Hope you meant that as sarcasm because I wouldnt put the substantiating theories to support Dhoni's captaincy run beyond most fanboys(Again not saying you are one)

Upto you to believe what you want to. And no my last post was written with all seriousness.

[ganeshran]

This thread is not about dhoni as a batsman, but as a captain. His captaincy reeks of being extra defensive, just surrendering when the opposition counter attacks and getting all his favorite Rhiti guys in the team. Since the World cup we havent won anything of note except a bilateral series against England. Lost the CB series and lost the Asia cup as well, now a ODI series defeat at home. What is bothering is that the spineless selectors refuse to hold Dhoni accountable for any of these defeats. Amarnath's comments show how Selectors wanted to drop Dhoni but were vetoed on. If BCCI wants selectors only to take decisions which they want, why have a panel in the fist place? Might as well make Dhoni the captain, coach and selector too.