God damnit Dhoni will be retained as cap for Test team

[Number]

He will take Indian test team to the point of no return. :hysterical: Have you seen his fitness and attitude on the field in England series ? Singing songs in the slip position' date= laughing after dropping catches and jogging along like a road roller. Is this guy your choice for test captain ? Ridiculous.

Dhoni who cares a lot about Indian team has taken India to that position already. :hysterical:

[Muloghonto]

He will take Indian test team to the point of no return. :hysterical: Have you seen his fitness and attitude on the field in England series ? Singing songs in the slip position' date=' laughing after dropping catches and jogging along like a road roller. Is this guy your choice for test captain ? Ridiculous.[/quote'] My choice for test captain is Dhoni for now, 2-3 years down the road, one of Viraat, Pujara, Rahane, etc. when they establish himself. Being a test captain = 'locked in' for the next 2-3 years in the team. Nobody except Dhoni and Sehwag satisfy that criteria. I do agree that Sehwag does not bring the right exemplary attitude,but he has things that are going for him: a) The only other 'garantee' in the Indian test team ( a must-have for any captaincy contender) b) Given his simplistic and uncluttered approach to batting, he is the likeliest candidate to not suffer personal drop in performance due to captanincy commitments & the countless hours & energy it takes to fulfill that role,both on and off the field.

[Muloghonto]

Sehwag is a guarantee in the test spot? Except for that 100 at Ahmedabad, he has been a dud. Won't say he has been out of form but has kept throwing away his wicket in identical fashion (despite getting multiple let offs in those innings) which is worse IMO. Come the overseas tours, I am not sure if he even deserves a spot in the 15 given his recent performances in NZ SA and England. Add to that a pathetic fitness and a poor attitude.

Sehwag is a garantee for the Indian test team, make no mistake about it. Given that he is not an opening batsman by trade, his record there is exemplary and if Sehwag's form does not improve, it would be criminal to drop him, instead of slotting him in the middle order. The way i see it, one way or another, Sehwag is in the team for atleast another 2-3 years and the only one who can be given the captaincy on that basis. You cannot have a captain who is not a garantee in the team in the first place, that question does not arise and is as absurd as picking a guy solely for his captaincy skills, aka Mike Brearley.

[The Outsider]

People are talking about Sehwag's form as if Dhoni has been lighting the cricket world on fire. It's pointless bringing in the notion that he is a wicketkeeper batsman so standards are lower for him. His keeping is so ordinary that he needs to contribute almost as much as a top order batsman to justify his spot in the team and he is a far cry from reaching those levels. If he is not going to score runs at levels close to a top order batsman, might as well get a better keeper in the side.

[Crookbond]

Give shewag or anybody captaincy for 3-4 series then judje.

If you want captaincy credentials from domestic cricket and IPL - why not Gambhir. Has led Delhi and KKR to titles while leading from the front in Ranji and IPL. Yeah he is not in good form over the past 2-3 years, but scored in the most recent series and if you are so big on correlations then he will perform even better as captain based on Ranji and IPL. You were expecting some kind of a miracle in one test from Sehwag where he was in charge due to a ban on Dhoni? Sehwag has to deliver in the only test he gets, but Dhoni can get away with whitewash after whitewash! Brilliant! :hysterical: You still haven't told me what's Dhoni's pedigree as a test captain?

It's easy to do this :haha: or this :cantstop: or :giggle: and this :hysterical: and "abuse" the discussion. Gambhir is a better captain than MS Dhoni based on IPL? Ha, you need to brush up on IPL a little bit. I ask a simple question - If Dhoni was the single point of failure for all the 7 tests which we lost what happened when Sehwag captained? Why was the pattern of loss identical to the other 7 tests? Why was there absolutely NO DIFFERENCE? I go for continuity rather than disruptive individuals who do not respect team ethos. Sehwag definitely has pedigree in that department. In addition, I think it's time in the discussion we put up on what Sehwag has done with the bat over the past 3 years as well.

[saneindian]

So you want Dhoni removed for non performance but want Sehwag or Gambhir elevated as captain despite being non performers? Kohli will look at the last 3-4 months as a lost opportunity. Some good scores consistently and he could so easily have got the captaincy by now.

[Crookbond]

Give shewag or anybody captaincy for 3-4 series then judje.

Sexy and this is what you call roadmap and vision, eh?

[Raghav_12]

This seems to be the intention of some people here. Just change the captain for the sake of it' date= whether it makes the team better or not.

Right now, we keep the captain just for the sake of it. Just let them play without captain, they'll not do worse than what Dhoni's captaincy will force them to do. Forget about captaincy, he shouldn't be in test XI itself.

[Marut]

Our test team is headed for disaster (as if it is not already a disaster!) if we do nothing and wait for a miracle. Dhoni is not the man who is going to do anything now and handing the captaincy to him is as good as waiting for a miracle. Mind you, I am a big Dhoni fan for ODIs. Now without using excuses like "there is no alternative", imagine that Dhoni is hurt and is out of action for six months. Will we now claim that "there is no alternative" and choose to go without a captain for our side? Who will captain our side if Dhoni is not available? Think about it, and hand over the reins to that guy for six months, and then take if from there. Dhoni himself was not proven as a captain when he took over, yet that bold experiment was undertaken and it paid rich dividends for a few years. A similar situation has presented itself now. Be proactive and remove Dhoni.

[CG]

It's easy to do this :haha: or this :cantstop: or :giggle: and this :hysterical: and "abuse" the discussion. Gambhir is a better captain than MS Dhoni based on IPL? Ha, you need to brush up on IPL a little bit. I ask a simple question - If Dhoni was the single point of failure for all the 7 tests which we lost what happened when Sehwag captained? Why was the pattern of loss identical to the other 7 tests? Why was there absolutely NO DIFFERENCE? I go for continuity rather than disruptive individuals who do not respect team ethos. Sehwag definitely has pedigree in that department. In addition, I think it's time in the discussion we put up on what Sehwag has done with the bat over the past 3 years as well.

There was a diff shewag was aggresive in the intial phase before ponting and clarke took it away on a flat pitch.He made some mistake as having no slips in middle stages.But on basis on 1 match you cannot judje when he was filling in for dhoni. Also We did not lose by innings as in last 2 test matches.:winky:

[saneindian]

Right now' date=' we keep the captain just for the sake of it. Just let them play without captain, they'll not do worse than what Dhoni's captaincy will force them to do. Forget about captaincy, [b']he shouldn't be in test XI itself.

Along with Gauti, Sehwag and Sachin.

[CG]

Sexy and this is what you call roadmap and vision' date=' eh?[/quote'] What u going to judje a new captain by 1 match or expect a ready made captain who is going to make us sin again.

[Muloghonto]

So you want Dhoni removed for non performance but want Sehwag or Gambhir elevated as captain despite being non performers? Kohli will look at the last 3-4 months as a lost opportunity. Some good scores consistently and he could so easily have got the captaincy by now.

No, Kohli having a few good series does not garantee him a test spot, neither does it do it for Pujara. Tendu did not become captain in his first couple years, neither did Azhar, Ganguly, Dravid, Kumble or Dhoni. You have to give captaincy to a player you are confident will be around for atleast 3-5 years, if not longer and even if he has an entire year (three-four series) averaging 30 or so with the bat, are willing to say 'bad year, better luck next year'. Nobody except Dhoni & Sehwag qualify for that criteria, neither Pujara or Kohli are secure in the team- they are one/two terrible series away from being scrapped.

[saneindian]

Dhoni was not made the ODI and Test captain right at the start. He was made the T20 captain cos the BCCI thought that as a worthless tournament ( we were the biggest opponent of T20s back then). Only after our success in the World T20, was he handed over the ODI captaincy.

[Number]

Our test team is headed for disaster (as if it is not already a disaster!) if we do nothing and wait for a miracle. Dhoni is not the man who is going to do anything now and handing the captaincy to him is as good as waiting for a miracle. Mind you, I am a big Dhoni fan for ODIs. Now without using excuses like "there is no alternative", imagine that Dhoni is hurt and is out of action for six months. Will we now claim that "there is no alternative" and choose to go without a captain for our side? Who will captain our side if Dhoni is not available? Think about it, and hand over the reins to that guy for six months, and then take if from there. Dhoni himself was not proven as a captain when he took over, yet that bold experiment was undertaken and it paid rich dividends for a few years. A similar situation has presented itself now. Be proactive and remove Dhoni.

:two_thumbs_up:

[Crookbond]

There was a diff shewag was aggresive in the intial phase before ponting and clarke took it away on a flat pitch.He made some mistake as having no slips in middle stages.But on basis on 1 match you cannot judje when he was filling in for dhoni. Also We did not lose by innings as it last 2 test matches.:winky:

Yes - now you will come up with all reasons and the main point will get lost in the details. It is funny you mention about innings defeat because he batted first the previous two Test matches. In both the test matches we did not bat first, we lost by a huge margin of runs. If Australia had enforced the follow-on, we would have lost by innings itself. It is not about judging Sehwag based on one match for captaincy. It is about understanding one fact - captaincy was not the "foremost" reason of loss. It was performance of players - so change in captaincy is not going to effect that. It is a classic correlation/causation fallacy.

[The Outsider]

Gambhir is a better captain than MS Dhoni based on IPL? Ha, you need to brush up on IPL a little bit.

And you are saying that I am abusing the discussion? You brought in IPL and domestic cricket as a criteria to choose Indian cricket team captain, which is quite a ridiculous notion in the first place because none of the Indian captains from the last 20 years or so would have captained their teams for a long stretch in domestic cricket in the first place. How many domestic games had Dhoni captained before he became Indian captain? But even so I humored you and showed you that Gambhir's record is very good not only in IPL, but also Ranji.

I ask a simple question - If Dhoni was the single point of failure for all the 7 tests which we lost what happened when Sehwag captained? Why was the pattern of loss identical to the other 7 tests? Why was there absolutely NO DIFFERENCE? I go for continuity rather than disruptive individuals who do not respect team ethos. Sehwag definitely has pedigree in that department.

Where did I say Dhoni was the single point of failure? Back to your favorite method of "arguing" by putting words in someone's mouth and proving them wrong rather than the original point being made? Let's see if you are capable of producing a quote where I claimed Dhoni to be the single point of failure.

In addition, I think it's time in the discussion we put up on what Sehwag has done with the bat over the past 3 years as well.

Knock yourself out.

[Muloghonto]

Along with Gauti' date=' Sehwag and Sachin.[/quote'] Sehwag would be in the XI, as well as Sachin and Gautam, of which i'd say Sachin has the shortest shelf life and Gautam the shortest rope. It would be insane to drop Sehwag without giving him an extended run in the middle order. he is a middle order batsman who has done the job of an alltime great opener- itself an astonishing achievement. Dropping Sehwag on the basis that he is not performing as an opener is as dumb as trying to open your bowling with Ashwin, finding out that he is one of the few spinners who can open the innings and do excellently and then scrapping him 5 years later when we finally find out that a spinner cannot open the bowling consistently well.

[Crookbond]

What u going to judje a new captain by 1 match or expect a ready made captain who is going to make us sin again.

No one hands over captaincy to people who are disruptive to team culture as well or hands over to non-performing players. There have been a couple of cases where there have been exceptions but you can't use Graeme Smith as a rule. Even if you do stop passing it around as if it is a straight forward matter of fact - it is not, it's a gamble.

[CG]

Yes - now you will come up with all reasons and the main point will get lost in the details. It is funny you mention about innings defeat because he batted first the previous two Test matches. In both the test matches we did not bat first, we lost by a huge margin of runs. If Australia had enforced the follow-on, we would have lost by innings itself. It is not about judging Sehwag based on one match for captaincy. It is about understanding one fact - captaincy was not the "foremost" reason of loss. It was performance of players - so change in captaincy is not going to effect that. It is a classic correlation/causation fallacy.

Whatever be the arguement.Fact is Captain is responsible for his team.He got the credit and its time he got the brickbats.Captaincy is not dhonis fathers property{even if he thinks so} ,He had his time now it should be up to others.