IT professional arrested for 'cheating' girlfriend

[coffee_rules]

Live-in relationship in this society is still not accepted, when a girl consents to it, she is part of the decision , promises or otherwise. I don't think there is any law yet which is based on a promise made between two people verbally. How does it stand in court? Even if police arrest him, a bail is warranted if he is not a flight risk.

[DomainK]

I'm pretty sure that is how it works in reality. Radhika did not word it correctly' date=' but it would be completely stupid to assume guilt before evidence. Can you show me some examples where the guy had to prove he did not promise marriage rather than the girl show that he did promise marriage and whether he was convicted.[/quote'] In reality, in all laws made to "protect" women, the burden of proof is on the man. If a woman complains of domestic violence, the husband and the in laws will have to prove that they did not beat her, failing which they will be convicted. In the absence of any proof to support either sides' claims, the woman's word will be taken as true. According to Indian law, "women can not lie."

[The Outsider]

In reality, in all laws made to "protect" women, the burden of proof is on the man. If a woman complains of domestic violence, the husband and the in laws will have to prove that they did not beat her, failing which they will be convicted. In the absence of any proof to support either sides' claims, the woman's word will be taken as true. According to Indian law, "women can not lie."

Is that why the conviction rates for rape cases in India are a mere 25% of the cases which went to trial? :hmmm:

[Raghav_12]

Is that why the conviction rates for rape cases in India are a mere 25% of the cases which went to trial? :hmmm:

Following article would give you some idea. Even though female's word is given a lot credence in indian courts but they can't do much when females go for out of court settlement or would turn hostile. Fast-track relief from false rape allegations http://www.dailypioneer.com/home/online-channel/360-todays-newspaper/125062-fast-track-relief-from-false-rape-allegations.html

The six fast-track courts set up recently in the Capital to speed up trials in sexual offence cases, particularly rape, are a boon to litigants. Not only have they resulted in victims getting speedy justice, these fast-track courts (FTCs) have also brought relief to those who have been falsely implicated in such cases. The decision of constituting these FTCs exclusively for trying sexual offence cases was taken after the brutal gang-rape and assault of a para-medic on December 16, 2012 in a moving bus in south Delhi. Since January 4, the FTCs have settled 27 cases in 27 days and in more than 50 per cent of these cases, the courts have acquitted the accused after finding no evidence against them. While acquitting the accused in 15 rape cases, the courts observed that on occasions the victims voluntarily accompanied the accused and that there was no enticement or inducement on the part of the accused. In some cases, the courts also noted that the statements made by the victims were unreliable and untrustworthy, while in some cases, the victims also turned hostile during trial. There were instances when the courts also opined that ÅÄonsidering the nature of the testimonies of the victims in rape cases, sometimes, it has become futile to carry on the case. ŵhere is not even a slight indication that the accused had lured the prosecutrix to accompany them, the court noted while acquitting two accused booked for kidnapping and raping a minor girl at Indrapuri last year. While dealing with various rape cases, Additional sessions Judge (ASJ) Virender Bhat, currently presiding over the FTC in Dwarka, has noted that in most rape cases, the victim had consensual sex with the accused. Judge Bhat in an order delivered on January 7, observed that the victim had categorically denied that she was abducted and gang-raped. ŵhe victim of the rape case has deposed before the court that nothing wrong happened to her. Further, the victim in her testimony did not even mention the word rape, the court said. In a gang-rape case reported in 2012, where four accused were charged with abducting a girl and raping her inside a car in Najafgarh, the victim deposed before the court that neither was she kidnapped nor was she raped. ŵhe victim clearly mentioned that she had physical relations with the accused persons out of her free will and there was no pressure or threat, Judge Bhat noted in an order delivered on January 19. Bhat has acquitted the accused in four cases including three gang-rape cases. Similarly, Additional Sessions Judge TR Naval, presiding FTC judge in Karkardooma, observed that the key witness and victim in three rape cases, including one gang-rape case turned hostile. While disposing off a 2011 rape case at Sonia Vihar, where it was alleged that the accused had raped a woman and threatened to kill her and her child, the judge found the testimonies of the prime witnesses to be unreliable. The court in the order delivered on January 15 closed the prosecution evidence and acquitted the accused saying: Ūt will be a futile exercise to continue recording the testimonies of other witnesses in the case. Additional Sessions Judge Nivedita Anil Sharma, presiding FTC judge in Tis Hazari has passed seven orders of acquittal in rape cases. In the orders she observed that no rape accused could be convicted if the witnesses do not support the prosecution case or give quality evidence. Ūt would not be out of place to mention here that today there is a hue and cry being raised everywhere that Courts are not convicting those accused of rape. However, no man, accused of rape, can be convicted if the witnesses do not support the prosecutionÃÔ case, Judge Sharma opined.

[The Outsider]

Following article would give you some idea. Even though female's word is given a lot credence in indian courts but they can't do much when females go for out of court settlement or would turn hostile. Fast-track relief from false rape allegations http://www.dailypioneer.com/home/online-channel/360-todays-newspaper/125062-fast-track-relief-from-false-rape-allegations.html

My numbers are for cases which were decided in court. Out of court settlements are already excluded from those statistics.

[DomainK]

Live-in relationship in this society is still not accepted' date=' when a girl consents to it, she is part of the decision , promises or otherwise. I don't think there is any law yet which is based on a promise made between two people verbally. How does it stand in court? Even if police arrest him, a bail is warranted if he is not a flight risk.[/quote'] 1. Rape under Indian law is roughly defined as "sex without consent". The law holds that consent obtained on false premises is not valid consent. Hence now the law states that consent obtained by promise marriage also is not valid consent and hence it's rape. 2. The Indian law is AFAIK the only law in the world that recognizes live-in relationships and gives them a special status. According to Indian law, a woman in a live-in relationship automatically gets the status of a legally wed wife. On break-up, she can demand alimony and expenses for living. However, the man in a live-in relationship does not get the status of a husband.

[Raghav_12]

My numbers are for cases which were decided in court. Out of court settlements are already excluded from those statistics.

These stats are for the cases where an FIR is filed under IPC 376. After FIR lodging that there are many stages where cases can be dropped.- Chargesheet Submission by police, Charge framing by court and then trial starts. During trial also cases may be dropped if key witnesses turn hostile. You can check NCRB data for exact numbers. Also you can refer to this article for some related numbers. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-19/edit-page/35891373_1_violent-crimes-conviction-rate-crack

[punjabi_khota]

"The Indian law is AFAIK the only law in the world that recognizes live-in relationships and gives them a special status."

No. US has a domestic partnership thing, and also common-law marriage.

[The Outsider]

These stats are for the cases where an FIR is filed under IPC 376. After FIR lodging that there are many stages where cases can be dropped.- Chargesheet Submission by police, Charge framing by court and then trial starts. During trial also cases may be dropped if key witnesses turn hostile. You can check NCRB data for exact numbers. Also you can refer to this article for some related numbers. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-19/edit-page/35891373_1_violent-crimes-conviction-rate-crack

No, they are for cases which actually went to court: http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013/01/04/statistics-conviction-rates-for-rape-across-india/

Of the total number of cases that made to court, the overall rate of convictions stand at 26.4%, or 4,072 convictions while 11,351 acquittals were recorded.

If the female word was being in as high regard as you guys are trying to suggest we should have been seeing 75% conviction rates instead of 25%.

[Raghav_12]

No, they are for cases which actually went to court: http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013/01/04/statistics-conviction-rates-for-rape-across-india/ If the female word was being in as high regard as you guys are trying to suggest we should have been seeing 75% conviction rates instead of 25%.

Rape is non-bailable offence and any FIR would go to court. So 100% cases go to court. Media deliberately twisting numbers there. Out of court settlements doesn't mean case didn't go for court. Cases go to court but then both parties patch up and stop co-operating in judicial process. Many extortion attempts through rape charges culminate in that manner. However, following is break-up for that 26.4% which was conviction rate for year 2011. Nnmber of cases filed - 24206 % of IPC crime - 1.0 Rate of Crime - 2.0 Chargesheeted - 93.8% Conviction Rate 26.4% http://ncrb.nic.in/

[The Outsider]

^ Yeah, Wall Street Journal is twisting numbers. Whatever!

[Raghav_12]

^ Yeah' date=' Wall Street Journal is twisting numbers. Whatever![/quote'] why it is not possible? I have given you exact break up of 26.4% from NCRB site which is also source for WSJ. Still you not ready to believe?

[The Outsider]

why it is not possible? I have given you exact break up of 26.4% from NCRB site which is also source for WSJ. Still you not ready to believe?

Why? Because WSJ is generally a reliable source of information. Their editorials might have a certain inclination, but they are very good on the accuracy of facts they put up. The NCRB site does not give the number of cases which went to court. The prosecutor might drop charges before going to court for many reasons and that would the reason for the difference between 24,206*0.93 chargesheets and 15,423 court cases which were decided in 2011. Of course not all cases get decided the same year so there would be spillovers either way but they should largely cancel out. The corresponding number in UK is 57%. Suppose the courts there value the female's word as God's word?

[Raghav_12]

Why? Because WSJ is generally a reliable source of information. Their editorials might have a certain inclination, but they are very good on the accuracy of facts they put up. The NCRB site does not give the number of cases which went to court. The prosecutor might drop charges before going to court for many reasons and that would the reason for the difference between 24,206*0.93 chargesheets and 15,423 court cases which were decided in 2011. Of course not all cases get decided the same year so there would be spillovers either way but they should largely cancel out. The corresponding number in UK is 57%. Suppose the courts there value the female's word as God's word?

You just showing your lack of knowledge of indian judicial process. Prosecution doesn't drop charges without court permission once FIR has been lodged. Prosecution has to submit a report in the court and then court will close the case, if prosecution wants it to be closed.. For example in palghar facebook case, police submitted a B report in court that means that no crime happened even though FIR was lodged. On that basis court closed the case. Even after that Shivsena had an option of appealing in higher court. So there is absolutely no doubt that what WSJ or NCRB are talking about number of cases registered which essentialy means that cases came infront of court. You must know once FIR has been written for a Cognizable offence matter has to be dealt by court only, nobody else. Here WSJ is not reporting wrong numbers but you are misunderstanding them. But anyways, main discussion point was that India law defintely has to look at the definition of rape , they still going by the definition that was written in 1860.

[The Outsider]

You just showing your lack of knowledge of indian judicial process. Prosecution doesn't drop charges without court permission once FIR has been lodged. Prosecution has to submit a report in the court and then court will close the case, if prosecution wants it to be closed.. For example in palghar facebook case, police submitted a B report in court that means that no crime happened even though FIR was lodged. On that basis court closed the case. Even after that Shivsena had an option of appealing in higher court.

And those cases which are closed in that way will not be included in the total cases which were actually tried in court.

So there is absolutely no doubt that what WSJ or NCRB are talking about number of cases registered which essentialy means that cases came infront of court. You must know once FIR has been written for a Cognizable offence matter has to be dealt by court only, nobody else. Here WSJ is not reporting wrong numbers but you are misunderstanding them.

How do you explain the difference between the number of chargesheets filed and the number of cases which went to trial quoted by the WSJ?

But anyways, main discussion point was that India law defintely has to look at the definition of rape , they still going by the definition that was written in 1860.

That's entirely different from your and DomainK's claim that female's word has an upper hand given the conviction rate of 25% as opposed to 57% in UK.

[Raghav_12]

And those cases which are closed in that way will not be included in the total cases which were actually tried in court. How do you explain the difference between the number of chargesheets filed and the number of cases which went to trial quoted by the WSJ? That's entirely different from your and DomainK's claim that female's word has an upper hand given the conviction rate of 25% as opposed to 57% in UK.

IPC 376 is non-compoundable offence, which means that case can't be withdrawn by complainant even if they want to. So any case which would go to court would be shown as case completed once case is closed. Your basic point that out of court settlement doesn't come under trail completed is wrong anyways. As it is non-compoundable offence, it can't be withdrawn and cases are closed when witnesses or complainnant itself turn hostile or start abstaining from court proceedings either because of out of court settlements or because of any other reason. Another example which would lead to low conviction rate in India Drunk woman cries rape, retracts when sober http://zeenews.india.com/news/delhi/drunk-woman-cries-rape-retracts-when-sober_828461.html

New Delhi: A woman, who was found drunk by PCR van personnel early Monday, alleged that she was raped by a man. She retracted her statement on regaining sobriety later, police said. The 27-year-old woman flagged down a Police Control Room (PCR) van around 3.30 am Monday and told police that she was raped by an unidentified man who had dragged her into his car when she was going to her house in west Delhi's Mangolpuri, said a police officer. "The woman was roaming around drunk. She was taken to west Delhi's Mianwali Nagar police station to register her statement. When she got sober, she retracted her statement," the officer added. "On seeing the PCR van, the woman concocted the rape story to avoid questioning," said the officer.

[Raghav_12]

Why? Because WSJ is generally a reliable source of information. Their editorials might have a certain inclination, but they are very good on the accuracy of facts they put up. The NCRB site does not give the number of cases which went to court. The prosecutor might drop charges before going to court for many reasons and that would the reason for the difference between 24,206*0.93 chargesheets and 15,423 court cases which were decided in 2011. Of course not all cases get decided the same year so there would be spillovers either way but they should largely cancel out. The corresponding number in UK is 57%. Suppose the courts there value the female's word as God's word?

Your these numbers are meaningless as there would be very few cases which are completed in same year. So I don't think there is any relation between two numbers (24206 and 15423) that you are talking about.

[The Outsider]

Your these numbers are meaningless as there would be very few cases which are completed in same year. So I don't think there is any relation between two numbers (24206 and 15423) that you are talking about.

Exactly. So the number 24206 is meaningless in this context. The number we should be looking for is 15423 and the conviction is 25% of that number, which is what WSJ has reported. The kind of examples you are giving are the same in other countries as well. Why is the conviction rate as high as 57% in UK when courts in India supposedly give so much weight to the female word in India?

[Raghav_12]

Exactly. So the number 24206 is meaningless in this context. The number we should be looking for is 15423 and the conviction is 25% of that number' date=' which is what WSJ has reported. The kind of examples you are giving are the same in other countries as well. Why is the conviction rate as high as 57% in UK when courts in India supposedly give so much weight to the female word in India?[/quote'] There are multiple reasons. No where in world rape cases are used to settle land disputes, no where in world consensual sex is termed as rape, nowhere in world there is not so much immunity provided to false complainants. You would recall that there a rape case was admitted against Rahul Gandhi last year. If such frivolous cases admitted in the court, conviction rate is going to be low. http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_rape-case-against-rahul-gandhi-quashed_1753768 On the other hand this low conviction rate just shows that what would actually be the percentages of genuine cases in country? Fast track courts are exposing some of these numbers. And in cases of rape, out of court settlements would still be calculated in list of trial completed.

[vandokkum]

This is some retarded case, pretty much every man who has ever gotten laid would be in jail if you start arresting people for not marrying their girlfriend