Please keep Jadeja away from TEST team!

[The Outsider]

We couldnt against Strong oppositions at home.Lost the series to England and couldnt win the last two series against SA.Havent won in Srl (similar conditions) in 20 years.Fact is we dont have any world class bowler ever since Kumble retired and we have been struggling to take 20 wickets in these wkts which makes having 5 bowlers in these conditions imperative. I am not disagreeing it will be unfair on the reserve batsman to just come in at no.6 in tough conditions but its gamble worth taking imo.Almost in 5 of 9 countries (75% of our tests) playing Jadeja ahead of Rohit or Rayadu will give us much better chance of winning imo. We can always rotate batsmen against weaker opposition and send these reserve batsman for A tours which will help them much better.

We lost a test against SA because we were effectively playing one batsman short with Saha as a frontline batsman and then another because of the completely green track which dried out in a couple of sessions. England series, I agree a fifth bowler would have made a difference. But weigh that against the number of times an accomplished batsman away from home has helped the team win away tests and even series. For me the ideal strategy would be to strike a balance between home and away. By this strategy we will become even more dominant at home, but would become poorer away. The way things stand any improvement away should be encouraged. Look at when we number one. It was due to playing 4 bowlers. WI of the 80s and Australia of the 90s-00s used to play 4 bowlers. England today plays 4 bowlers. South Africa can afford to play 5 because they have Kallis. IMO, 5 bowlers is a luxury which can be afforded only when you have a genuine all rounder.

[Precambrian]

STFU outsider.. You've been pawned... No amount of counter arguments is going to shield the FACT that Jadeja averages under 20 in test cricket. Yeah, he averages under 20 in test cricket. under 20 in test cricket. under 20 in test cricket. under 20 in test cricket. under 20 in test cricket. under 20 in test cricket. Suck it up.

[The Outsider]

STFU outsider.. You've been pawned... No amount of counter arguments is going to shield the FACT that Jadeja averages under 20 in test cricket. Yeah, he averages under 20 in test cricket. under 20 in test cricket. under 20 in test cricket. under 20 in test cricket. under 20 in test cricket. under 20 in test cricket. Suck it up.

I think you take pwning me a bit too seriously. Multiple posts with ad hominem attacks about how Outsider has been proved wrong. Arre it's cricket and this is a cricket forum. Enjoy your time and don't obsess about proving Outsider wrong. For what it's worth, I've been proven wrong many more times and right as well sometimes. Please do extend the courtesy of commenting about my anti pwnage when I've been proved right in the interest of fairness. And yeah, Jadeja has done really well and he deserves to be in the side. The latest discussion is whether we should be playing 4 or 5 bowlers. If you have anything to contribute there, please do. If all you have to say is Outsider has been pwned, don't waste any more time. Jadeja has indeed pwned me with his performance this series.

[Ultimate_Game]

How is that relevant? You can bring in as many youngsters as you want from the domestic circuit. If you play them exclusively in South Africa, England, Australia, and New Zealand their chances of success are slim to none. Completely different situation: "The difference is that you are giving the third pacer away or the second spinner at home conditions more conducive to their game. On the contrary by playing Rohit and Rahane exclusively at Durban, Johannesburg, Leeds, Perth you are given them conditions adverse to the success of their game. If that's the plan might as well play Jadeja there as well because no batsman from the subcontinent can make a career by playing exclusively in such conditions. It's like asking some Australian fast bowler to make a career by playing exclusively on Indian pitches."

Ideally I would prefer India stick to 7+4 formula both home and away. At home Jadeja should play as one of the two specialist spinners (along with 2 pacers) and in case the pitch is a rank turner we should go with 3 spinners and 1 pacer. Jadeja is not good enough to bat at 6 or 7 right now. When we tour outside the sub-continent he should compete with Ashwin/Ojha/any other spinner for the lead spinner position as we should go with 1 spinner + 3 pacers outside the SC. However in case selectors stick to 6+5 formula at home we will have no choice but to play the 7th batsman exclusively outside the SC though I would prefer 7 batsmen (6 batsmen + wk) to play both home and away. On pitches we had this home series against Aus I would rather play 3 spinners and a lone pacer than go with 2 pacers with one of the pacers redundant for majority of the game.

[saneindian]

I think you take pwning me a bit too seriously. Multiple posts with ad hominem attacks about how Outsider has been proved wrong. Arre it's cricket and this is a cricket forum. Enjoy your time and don't obsess about proving Outsider wrong. For what it's worth, I've been proven wrong many more times and right as well sometimes. Please do extend the courtesy of commenting about my anti pwnage when I've been proved right in the interest of fairness. And yeah, Jadeja has done really well and he deserves to be in the side. The latest discussion is whether we should be playing 4 or 5 bowlers. If you have anything to contribute there, please do. If all you have to say is Outsider has been pwned, don't waste any more time. Jadeja has indeed pwned me with his performance this series.

Perfect! :two_thumbs_up:

[The Outsider]

Ideally I would prefer India stick to 7+4 formula both home and away. At home Jadeja should play as one of the two specialist spinners (along with 2 pacers) and in case the pitch is a rank turner we should go with 3 spinners and 1 pacer. Jadeja is not good enough to bat at 6 or 7 right now. When we tour outside the sub-continent he should compete with Ashwin/Ojha/any other spinner for the lead spinner position as we should go with 1 spinner + 3 pacers outside the SC. However in case selectors stick to 6+5 formula at home we will have no choice but to play the 7th batsman exclusively outside the SC though I would prefer 7 batsmen (6 batsmen + wk) to play both home and away. On pitches we had this home series against Aus I would rather play 3 spinners and a lone pacer than go with 2 pacers with one of the pacers redundant for majority of the game.

Yeah that's the point I am making as well. Now that Jadeja has proved that he is good in these conditions, either drop Ojha or Ishant, but always go in with 6+1+4 combination. If you don't do that at home you are going to be completely screwed away because you simply can't expect the 6th batsman to make handy contributions in trying conditions without any international exposure. Jadeja has done well enough to be selected as a bowler ahead of Ojha and Harbhajan. I still feel Rasool might be a better option, but that is irrelevant for the time being. Jadeja should be playing as part of a 2+2 attack at home, rather than throwing a Hail Mary on Rahane and Rohit performing straight away at Johannesburg.

[Ultimate_Game]

Yeah that's the point I am making as well. Now that Jadeja has proved that he is good in these conditions, either drop Ojha or Ishant, but always go in with 6+1+4 combination. If you don't do that at home you are going to be completely screwed away because you simply can't expect the 6th batsman to make handy contributions in trying conditions without any international exposure. Jadeja has done well enough to be selected as a bowler ahead of Ojha and Harbhajan. I still feel Rasool might be a better option, but that is irrelevant for the time being. Jadeja should be playing as part of a 2+2 attack at home, rather than throwing a Hail Mary on Rahane and Rohit performing straight away at Johannesburg.

I hear you and hope we take "horses for courses" approach only for the players (i.e., pacer instead of spinner) and not with the team combination (i.e 6+5 at home and 7+4 away). There should be some level of consistency in the batting lineup and it's tough to blood a youngster when he's dropped for half the games for no fault of his own. Would have preferred Rahane & Rohit to get Eng & Aus series at home as well so we know which one is more suited to Tests and also for them to get settled in the lineup. But unfortunately Tendulkar was there to block the spot with the other gone due to 6+5 combo. Now whoever gets picked in SA will have to "sink or swim" against the likes of Steyn/Philander/Morkel - not the ideal situation to be in. But at least we were able to replace Sehwag, Gambhir, Dravid & Laxman to some extent.

[SLICKR392]

I think you take pwning me a bit too seriously. Multiple posts with ad hominem attacks about how Outsider has been proved wrong. Arre it's cricket and this is a cricket forum. Enjoy your time and don't obsess about proving Outsider wrong. For what it's worth, I've been proven wrong many more times and right as well sometimes. Please do extend the courtesy of commenting about my anti pwnage when I've been proved right in the interest of fairness.

:cantstop:

[Lord]

Yeah that's the point I am making as well. Now that Jadeja has proved that he is good in these conditions, either drop Ojha or Ishant, but always go in with 6+1+4 combination. If you don't do that at home you are going to be completely screwed away because you simply can't expect the 6th batsman to make handy contributions in trying conditions without any international exposure. Jadeja has done well enough to be selected as a bowler ahead of Ojha and Harbhajan. I still feel Rasool might be a better option, but that is irrelevant for the time being. Jadeja should be playing as part of a 2+2 attack at home, rather than throwing a Hail Mary on Rahane and Rohit performing straight away at Johannesburg.

We can give that exposure in ODIs.and prepare them on A tours.I dont think playing matches in home matches prepares them for swinging n bouncing conditions.maybe it helps thier confidence but otherwise the requirements are completely different maybe we can rotate the extra batsman in home games.with the amount of cricket we play,thats feasible option:hmmm: anyway,if playing 5 bowlers is the way we can win home games,we must do that.I'm not sure either way

[Ultimate_Game]

We can give that exposure in ODIs.and prepare them on A tours.I dont think playing matches in home matches prepares them for swinging n bouncing conditions.maybe it helps thier confidence but otherwise the requirements are completely different maybe we can rotate the extra batsman in home games.with the amount of cricket we play,thats feasible option:hmmm: anyway,if playing 5 bowlers is the way we can win home games,we must do that.I'm not sure either way

Sorry but odis, T20s & Tests are different formats and success/failure in one doesn't mean the same will happen in other formats. Relying on shorter formats or A tours is no way to prepare batsmen for tougher assignments in Eng, SA & Aus.

[Lord]

Sorry but odis' date=' T20s & Tests are different formats and success/failure in one doesn't mean the same will happen in other formats. Relying on shorter formats or A tours is no way to prepare batsmen for tougher assignments in Eng, SA & Aus.[/quote'] playing Tests on turners n pattas prepares them for swinging conditions more than A tour?

[Ultimate_Game]

playing Tests on turners n pattas prepares them for swinging conditions more than A tour?

There are match situations they will face only in Tests. E.g. a tricky chase in the 4th innings with match in line etc. It's not the same in A games where the pressure's considerably less. Dealing with that pressure and learning how to cope with it is one of the biggest things you learn atintl level which is why the younger batsmen have to be part of the team setup than being pushed in and out series to series. Cricket, like any professional sports, is mostly in the mind and folks who succeed at intl level are the ones who know how to deal with the pressure in different situations.

[Lord]

There are match situations they will face only in Tests. E.g. a tricky chase in the 4th innings with match in line etc. It's not the same in A games where the pressure's considerably less. Dealing with that pressure and learning how to cope with it is one of the biggest things you learn atintl level which is why the younger batsmen have to be part of the team setup than being pushed in and out series to series. Cricket' date=' like any professional sports, is mostly in the mind and folks who succeed at intl level are the ones who know how to deal with the pressure in different situations.[/quote'] agree and thats why I said,maybe they can rotate the 6th batsmen in home tests along with A tours.They help in getting them to learn how to deal with averse conditions. which wont happen at home. the main point is we cant afford to let go of out home dominance,if 5 bowlers is the way to win home games,so be it.I'm not sure it is though

[CG]

agree and thats why I said,maybe they can rotate the 6th batsmen in home tests along with A tours.They help in getting them to learn how to deal with averse conditions. which wont happen at home. the main point is we cant afford to let go of out home dominance,if 5 bowlers is the way to win home games,so be it.I'm not sure it is though

We can prepare pitches with good bounce which would aid the spinners as well as fast bowlers.Mumbai ,chennai,kolkatta were good pitches and can be very good test wickets.We do not need turners to win.It will be harmful in long run.

[Ultimate_Game]

agree and thats why I said,maybe they can rotate the 6th batsmen in home tests along with A tours.They help in getting them to learn how to deal with averse conditions. which wont happen at home. the main point is we cant afford to let go of out home dominance,if 5 bowlers is the way to win home games,so be it.I'm not sure it is though

That breeds uncertainty as nobody will be sure of their place in the team. After every failure or a Test batsmen would be looking over their shoulders - not the best situation to be in. I would rather team stick to their combination (7+4) and rotate spinners or pacers depending on the conditions & venue.

[Lord]

We can prepare pitches with good bounce which would aid the spinners as well as fast bowlers.Mumbai ' date='chennai,kolkatta were good pitches and can be very good test wickets.We do not need turners to win.It will be harmful in long run.[/quote'] then we can lose at home too since opposition would have better fast bowlers

[CG]

then we can lose at home too since opposition would have better fast bowlers

If we plan to be a good side we have to prepare good pitches which motivate all types of bowlers.This season our domestic pitches had some improvement.Also We have a good record at mohali which used to have the most bounce in india.

[vvvslaxman]

If we plan to be a good side we have to prepare good pitches which motivate all types of bowlers.This season our domestic pitches had some improvement.Also We have a good record at mohali which used to have the most bounce in india.

No need. Australia never had raging turners . Neither did SA. But some Australian side did manage to play well in India until recently . Good teams play well everywhere regardless of home conditions. 1980s windies, 2000 Aussies, now south africans.

[Ultimate_Game]

then we can lose at home too since opposition would have better fast bowlers

No, in the first step you prepare pitches assisting pacers only for domestic matches and for intl cricket continue playing on spin friendly pitches. Gradually as the younger players start coming in to national team who have been bred on sporting pitches, start preparing more sporting pitches for Tests as well (initially 1 sporting pitch for a series and gradually moving over to 2-3 pacy pitches) but IMO we should never let go of our spin advantage fully.

[Lord]

If we plan to be a good side we have to prepare good pitches which motivate all types of bowlers.This season our domestic pitches had some improvement.Also We have a good record at mohali which used to have the most bounce in india.

I agree about domestic pitches.they need to assist seamers but no need to get opposition into play if we can do without it