rageaddict Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Majority of the inmates in jails would have done something disgusting anyways so I dont understand why such criminals would start feeling sorry for a girl that has been raped ? What are such kind gentlemen doing in a prison at first place ?
Sean Bradley Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Good riddance or bad - does anyone here not find the death of an inmate a problem? :dontknow: Not in his case, it would have been a problem had it been kasab or afzal guru, but it has gone down well with most people that i have known, the fact that his crime pose a bigger ghast when compared to his suspicious death. Kasab, Afzal Guru, and Ram Singh, Welcome to the world of Congress Mate :bow:
Crookbond Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Majority of the inmates in jails would have done something disgusting anyways so I dont understand why such criminals would start feeling sorry for a girl that has been raped ? What are such kind gentlemen doing in a prison at first place ? Not in his case' date=' it would have been a problem had it been kasab or afzal guru, but it has gone down well with most people that i have known, the fact that his crime pose a bigger ghast when compared to his suspicious death. Kasab, Afzal Guru, and Ram Singh, Welcome to the world of Congress Mate :bow:[/quote'] So, how do you folks know which case is genuine and which is not? Pardon me but this is the typical attitude which plagues our society. As long as it benefits us, any wrong is right & any right is not worthy of an investigation. Just the other thread there is someone who is wrongly convicted for 4 years in a case of rape. I'm not asking for sympathy/empathy but asking to avoid "barking down the wrong tree". This case highlights the issue of process in jail security and must be immediately tended to - Ram Singh or not such incidents shouldn't occur, specially if an inmate is under suicide watch.
Raghav_12 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 and was on a 'suicide watch'. Suicide Watch was taken off once he had started socialising with fellow inmates. In fact he was involved in some sporting activity with other prisoners few hours before his death.
Sean Bradley Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 So, how do you folks know which case is genuine and which is not? Pardon me but this is the typical attitude which plagues our society. As long as it benefits us, any wrong is right & any right is not worthy of an investigation. Just the other thread there is someone who is wrongly convicted for 4 years in a case of rape. I'm not asking for sympathy/empathy but asking to avoid "barking down the wrong tree". This case highlights the issue of process in jail security and must be immediately tended to - Ram Singh or not such incidents shouldn't occur, specially if an inmate is under suicide watch. I agree with you, but the sheer volume of emotions shown by the masses and anguish of billions calling for his head, it has been a satisfactory accomplishment, justice has been served. There are two ways to look at it, Right or Wrong, but Ram Singhs death is of the Third Kind.
Raghav_12 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Majority of the inmates in jails would have done something disgusting anyways so I dont understand why such criminals would start feeling sorry for a girl that has been raped ? What are such kind gentlemen doing in a prison at first place ? Nothing could be further from reality. Most unfortunate fact about Indian prisons is that they are full of undertrials for whom it is yet to be ascertained whether they have done anything wrong enough to be put in prison or not. As per majority of reports this number is around 65% of total prisoners. Many of them will be exonerated by courts completely but not before they wasting good amount of time in jails and being scarred and tainted for life. Indian laws have relative greater propensity of putting accussed in jails with respect to other countries. Corruption in police and slow judicial process worsen things further. Bail is considered a favour rather than right of the accused. Supreme court has given some landmark judgements making it clear that personal liberty is constitutional right and mere suspicion is not enough ground to throw somebody in jail. There has been an amendment 41(a) in criminal act to ensure that proper due deligence is done before anybody is put in jail, but that is not being implemented by police completely. Accused are sent to judicial custody without police doing investigation, just on the basis of FIR. Recently in South Africa Oscar Pistorious was given bail within two days even after murder charges, which would never have happened in India. Condition of undertrial prisoners is gross in India to say the least. At times they spend more time in jail during trial itself than punishment they would have got in case of being proven guilty.
Crookbond Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I agree with you' date=' but the sheer volume of emotions shown by the masses and anguish of billions calling for his head, it has been a satisfactory accomplishment, justice has been served. There are two ways to look at it, Right or Wrong, but Ram Singhs death is of the Third Kind.[/quote'] Bradlya, These opportunities are rare and rather than being content they should act as a catalyst. This is not about Ram Singh but rather a larger issue. For example, the hue & cry shouldn't have been for "capital punishments for rapists"; they should rather have been for speedy trials with deadlines. This whole episode has been an Apna Kaam Banta Toh Bhaad Mein Jaao Junta attitude & a waste of energy.
Crookbond Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Suicide Watch was taken off once he had started socialising with fellow inmates. In fact he was involved in some sporting activity with other prisoners few hours before his death. Do you think that was an appropriate in your view?
Raghav_12 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Do you think that was an appropriate in your view? I didn't give my view. Just stated fact. Don't have enough information to claim an opinion. But in hindsight, it seems wrong decision.
Sean Bradley Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Bradlya' date=' These opportunities are rare and rather than being content they should act as a catalyst. This is not about Ram Singh but rather a larger issue. For example, the hue & cry shouldn't have been for "capital punishments for rapists"; they should rather have been for speedy trials with deadlines. This whole episode has been an [i']Apna Kaam Banta Toh Bhaad Mein Jaao Junta attitude & a waste of energy. Lets treat this instance as a oneoff case since this is one of its kind incident, we dont hear of suicide's by inmates in Tihar jail or for that matter any other cells of similar stature often, do we? This entire episode has revolved around emotions, anger, lust of the most unhuman and bizzare kinds. Apparently, Kiran Bedi had come up with a very interesting statement where she referred to the convicts of the sexual nature as the most abhored by other inmates. We can look at it from every possible angle, Ram Singh was murdered, Forced to commit suicide, Willingly committed suicide with other inmates and the guard acting as silent witnesses. As much as i would have loved to see him being legally executed to a capitol punishment, i feel that justice has been served rightly in a wrong way. There is a loop hole in the system, but incidentally this loop hole gulped a monster away, the last thing we all wanted is Ram Singh getting away with a 7 to 15 years of imprisonment in the year 2015? Sorry but I will take this anyday over that.
Crookbond Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I didn't give my view. Just stated fact. Don't have enough information to claim an opinion. But in hindsight' date=' it seems wrong decision.[/quote'] Arrey! :wall: I asked for your view since you seem much more informed than any of us. I never said you never gave facts. :whack:
Crookbond Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Lets treat this instance as a oneoff case since this is one of its kind incident, we dont hear of suicide's by inmates in Tihar jail or for that matter any other cells of similar stature often, do we? This entire episode has revolved around emotions, anger, lust of the most unhuman and bizzare kinds. Apparently, Kiran Bedi had come up with a very interesting statement where she referred to the convicts of the sexual nature as the most abhored by other inmates. We can look at it from every possible angle, Ram Singh was murdered, Forced to commit suicide, Willingly committed suicide with other inmates and the guard acting as silent witnesses. As much as i would have loved to see him being legally executed to a capitol punishment, i feel that justice has been served rightly in a wrong way. There is a loop hole in the system, but incidentally this loop hole gulped a monster away, the last thing we all wanted is Ram Singh getting away with a 7 to 15 years of imprisonment in the year 2015? Sorry but I will take this anyday over that. I never meant that you shouldn't take it but I'm asking you to be prudent of the precedent to be generated.
Sean Bradley Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I never meant that you shouldn't take it but I'm asking you to be prudent of the precedent to be generated. Prudent of the Precedent. Patience !
rahulrulezz Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Wait tomorrow until an innocent gets the same treatment and then would like to see your reaction. sorry I don't wanna be blunt but wait till someone u know gets VIOLENTLY gangrapen, beaten with iron rods and left naked on a road to die ... then you would know the pain of her family.... .. The guy proudly admitted to his crime WITHOUT any remorse!! Sorry dude, enough of sisssiness.. I do believe in inncoent till guity scenario but this is a DIFFERENT case all together..This is a open and shut case!!
ganeshran Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 As per majority of reports this number is around 65% of total prisoners. Source. how do you differentiate those acquitted because they were actually not guilty and those who were able to use underhand tactics to intimidate witnesses.
Crookbond Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 sorry I don't wanna be blunt but wait till someone u know gets VIOLENTLY gangrapen' date=' beaten with iron rods and left naked on a road to die ... then you would know the pain of her family.... .. The guy proudly admitted to his crime WITHOUT any remorse!! Sorry dude, enough of sisssiness.. I do believe in inncoent till guity scenario but this is a DIFFERENT case all together..This is a open and shut case!![/quote'] Why are you being so obtuse? I clearly said I was not asking for any sympathy or empathy.
Muloghonto Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Majority of the inmates in jails would have done something disgusting anyways so I dont understand why such criminals would start feeling sorry for a girl that has been raped ? What are such kind gentlemen doing in a prison at first place ? There is such a thing called 'honor amongst theives'. A friend of mine used to be one of the personal guards for Clifford Olson. He was very clear on one thing- prisoners have a 'heirarchy' and the very bottom of the list are child molestors, child killers and rapists, in that order. While rapists (ie, victim is an adult) are rarely killed in prison, they are threatened enough by the other inmates to require careful picking and choosing of cell mates. Child killers and child molestors on the other hand, are protected 24/7 in jails by the guards, kept in isolation/seclusion from rest of the jail, etc. Because in prison systems around the world, child killers and child molestors have a huge risk of being killed by inmates. To put it bluntly, prisons are survival of the fittest to the core and if you are there for child molesting/child killing, you are virtually certain to die if the authorities don't have a sympathetic ear to you.
Tiger80 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 There is such a thing called 'honor amongst theives'. A friend of mine used to be one of the personal guards for Clifford Olson. He was very clear on one thing- prisoners have a 'heirarchy' and the very bottom of the list are child molestors, child killers and rapists, in that order. While rapists (ie, victim is an adult) are rarely killed in prison, they are threatened enough by the other inmates to require careful picking and choosing of cell mates. Child killers and child molestors on the other hand, are protected 24/7 in jails by the guards, kept in isolation/seclusion from rest of the jail, etc. Because in prison systems around the world, child killers and child molestors have a huge risk of being killed by inmates. To put it bluntly, prisons are survival of the fittest to the core and if you are there for child molesting/child killing, you are virtually certain to die if the authorities don't have a sympathetic ear to you. How many child killers or molestors are killed in Indian prison each year ? figures please
Muloghonto Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 How many child killers or molestors are killed in Indian prison each year ? figures please I have no idea, but thats not the point. The point is, 'child killer/molestor got killed in prison' is a bit of the '**** happens' territorry. Law of the wild, natural order, etc etc. What really (probably) happened, is some hawaldar let it known to one of the prisoners why this guy was here and he might've got offed in the showers or something. Not alltogether unavoidable and unbelievable either.
Raghav_12 Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 Source. how do you differentiate those acquitted because they were actually not guilty and those who were able to use underhand tactics to intimidate witnesses. A simple google search would have helped you validate this fact. Anyways, here one link http://socialissuesindia.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/pending-cases-and-undertrials/ and it is not link of tehelka :winky: On second point, it's just nonsensical argument. Anybody against whom evidences have not been found (by court) have to be believed as non-guilty. Otherwise how you and I can say that we are not guilty of some crime? You just can't have an argument for having somebody in jail for elongated duration's just based on a FIR, without conducting proper due-deligence. You can have some proportion of such cases, but 65 to 70% is staggering number.
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