End of Aussie Era

[CC1981]

Your batting will still be strong but your bowling is weaker and weaker.

Name a stronger bowling attack then! I can see the RSA bowling DEVELOPING as a stronger attack and being in 2nd place right now...their attack is still helluva lot more potent than India's, West Indies,Sri Lanka,NZ,England and Pakistan...thats not the definition of a 'weak' bowling attack if the attack is still better than most teams out there!

As for India our batting will always be strong.

Because you can see the future, right ?!? India for the first time EVER in its history had two batsmen in the same team that averaged 40+ in ODIs and 50+ in tests...and one of them happens to be a once-in-a-lifetime player. If you think Indian batting will always be strong, you are sadly,mistaken. As it stands today, if Tendy-Dravid retired right now, Indian batting would be one of the poorest batting lineups overseas...nuff said!

And our bowling is getting stronger every year with more and more pacers emerging.

Yes, more and more *****ty or brittle,injury prone pacers emerging. India has never produced a truely great pace bowler and neither is any pacer in the vicinity of being approaching great status either.

[King Tendulkar]

Name a stronger bowling attack then! I can see the RSA bowling DEVELOPING as a stronger attack and being in 2nd place right now...their attack is still helluva lot more potent than India's, West Indies,Sri Lanka,NZ,England and Pakistan...thats not the definition of a 'weak' bowling attack if the attack is still better than most teams out there! Because you can see the future, right ?!? India for the first time EVER in its history had two batsmen in the same team that averaged 40+ in ODIs and 50+ in tests...and one of them happens to be a once-in-a-lifetime player. If you think Indian batting will always be strong, you are sadly,mistaken. As it stands today, if Tendy-Dravid retired right now, Indian batting would be one of the poorest batting lineups overseas...nuff said! Yes, more and more *****ty or brittle,injury prone pacers emerging. India has never produced a truely great pace bowler and neither is any pacer in the vicinity of being approaching great status either.

Is the aussie bowling attack weaker or stronger without Mcwarne? answer weaker, infact I would say they basically have gone from having one of the best spinners ever to one of the worst. Is Haddin as good as Gilly? In both glove work and batting he is inferior. Thus aussies will create less chances, take less chances and score less runs. In summary they are weaker and are more vulnerable.

[King Tendulkar]

Because you can see the future, right ?!?

Well actually I have given many top predictions that have come true! As many could vouch for my future predictions are often right on the money:--D

[The Outsider]

It's unlikely that WI could have batted out a comfortable draw for 100 overs in the last innings if McGrath and Warne were around as they are doing now. I can't remember many instances of teams playing out last innings draw against the Aussies.

[printex]

It's unlikely that WI could have batted out a comfortable draw for 100 overs in the last innings if McGrath and Warne were around as they are doing now. I can't remember many instances of teams playing out last innings draw against the Aussies.

SA in 2006 at perth, courtesy Rudolph:--D

[CC1981]

Is the aussie bowling attack weaker or stronger without Mcwarne? answer weaker, infact I would say they basically have gone from having one of the best spinners ever to one of the worst. Is Haddin as good as Gilly? In both glove work and batting he is inferior. Thus aussies will create less chances, take less chances and score less runs. In summary they are weaker and are more vulnerable.

Yeah, i saw how 'good' your predictions were about Aussies slowing down after Waughs,Warney etc. retired.. Look, doesnt matter if their team is weaker without warney-mcGrath....as Aussies have REPEATEDLY shown, they can cope with the loss of superstars...and are clearly the #1 team and their era of dominance very much continues. it didnt diminish at all with all these greats retiring from ODIs...

[The Outsider]

Punter agrees with dsr :

RICKY PONTING began the post-McGrath-Warne era with all the optimism and hubris historically associated with Australian captains, but recent experiences have led to a substantial downgrade in his predictions. After a gruelling draw with the West Indies in Antigua, Ponting conceded for the first time that his bowling attack had "come back to the pack a little bit in Test cricket" since the retirements of Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne. That is a massive concession for Ponting, a man not given to backward steps or outward signs of weakness. At the start of the home series against Sri Lanka, the Australian captain boldly declared his new-look side could be "even better" than that of recent summers, with no expected decline as generational change took effect. Eight Tests later, those forecasts have been adjusted. Try as they might, Australia's bowlers could manage no more than five West Indian wickets on the last day of the second Test. Only Brett Lee (3-51) threatened consistently on the docile Sir Vivian Richards Stadium wicket, with Stuart Clark playing the role of miser for 1-22 from 18 overs. Mitchell Johnson, meanwhile, again struggled for a consistent line and length and showed few traces of the swing for which he was once renowned. And Stuart MacGill's forgettable performance reaffirmed the reasoning behind his retirement. Speaking after the draw, which retained the Frank Worrell Trophy for Australia, Ponting outlined plans for change, including the elevation of Clark to new ball-duties and a preference to blood rookie spinner Beau Casson as soon as possible. Ponting also hinted at more experimental and creative bowling strategies, such as the greater use of Michael Clarke and Andrew Symonds in part-time spinning capacities, and even the injection of Simon Katich and Michael Hussey into the attack for short bursts. Hussey bowled six probing overs on Tuesday, more than doubling his career output to that point. "As far as our attack goes, we've probably just come back to the pack a little bit in Test cricket," Ponting said. "We've got Brett and Stuey [Clark], who are outstanding Test bowlers, and we've got Mitch, who is a work in progress, and we could very well have a young spinner the next game. I'm excited about that. It certainly is a challenge when you haven't got some of the other guys who have been around. It's a great challenge for me and the rest of the guys but, more importantly, it's a challenge for the bowlers to stand up and make a name for themselves as very good Test bowlers. I think Brett's done a very good job of standing up in Glenn's absence over the last 12 months and will continue to lead the attack well I'm sure. The next spinner is the interesting one for me. We'll see how that pans out." Ponting barely concealed his disappointment at his side's inability to claim victory in Antigua, after five days of milestones, emotion-charged centuries and a somewhat sudden retirement announcement. Kept at bay by Ramnaresh Sarwan (128) and Shivnarine Chanderpaul (77 not out), who batted for the majority of the fifth day during a fourth-wicket stand of 143 runs, the tourists' bowlers were unable to close out the match in the manner expected of recent Australian sides. Ponting declared Australia's innings closed over night at 6-244, setting the West Indies an impossible last-day target of 372. Thanks almost exclusively to the efforts of Sarwan and Chanderpaul, the Windies finished with 5-266 after Ponting, having cast an eye over his exhausted bowlers, agreed to conclude the match five overs earlier than scheduled. The West Indies pair have now scored a combined 525 runs in the two Tests thus far this series, including three centuries and two 50s. Clearly, Australia need to rethink their approach. "We could have done better today," Ponting said. "Stuey MacGill was someone we were going to need to take wickets today if we were going to win the game, and we didn't get the wickets from him. "I don't have any concern with [Johnson]. We're probably going to look at Stuey [Clark] opening the bowling more often than not now, for a number of reasons, like in these sorts of conditions. [Johnson] is a great athlete, and generally he'll do what I ask of him. So Stuey now moving on, the other guys have been good for the last couple of years in Test cricket, and I think Michael Clarke and [symonds] at times in this game have done a reasonable job as well and they're guys that I'm probably going to have to call a little bit more on now, with Shane and Glenn not being around now."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/weve-gone-backwards-punters-assessment-is-as-blunt-as-his-attack/2008/06/04/1212258909254.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

[manoj_admlab]

We've gone backwards: Punter's assessment is as blunt as his attack Alex Brown in North Sound June 5, 2008 RICKY PONTING began the post-McGrath-Warne era with all the optimism and hubris historically associated with Australian captains, but recent experiences have led to a substantial downgrade in his predictions. After a gruelling draw with the West Indies in Antigua, Ponting conceded for the first time that his bowling attack had "come back to the pack a little bit in Test cricket" since the retirements of Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne. That is a massive concession for Ponting, a man not given to backward steps or outward signs of weakness. At the start of the home series against Sri Lanka, the Australian captain boldly declared his new-look side could be "even better" than that of recent summers, with no expected decline as generational change took effect. Eight Tests later, those forecasts have been adjusted. Try as they might, Australia's bowlers could manage no more than five West Indian wickets on the last day of the second Test. Only Brett Lee (3-51) threatened consistently on the docile Sir Vivian Richards Stadium wicket, with Stuart Clark playing the role of miser for 1-22 from 18 overs. Mitchell Johnson, meanwhile, again struggled for a consistent line and length and showed few traces of the swing for which he was once renowned. And Stuart MacGill's forgettable performance reaffirmed the reasoning behind his retirement. Speaking after the draw, which retained the Frank Worrell Trophy for Australia, Ponting outlined plans for change, including the elevation of Clark to new ball-duties and a preference to blood rookie spinner Beau Casson as soon as possible. Ponting also hinted at more experimental and creative bowling strategies, such as the greater use of Michael Clarke and Andrew Symonds in part-time spinning capacities, and even the injection of Simon Katich and Michael Hussey into the attack for short bursts. Hussey bowled six probing overs on Tuesday, more than doubling his career output to that point. "As far as our attack goes, we've probably just come back to the pack a little bit in Test cricket," Ponting said. "We've got Brett and Stuey [Clark], who are outstanding Test bowlers, and we've got Mitch, who is a work in progress, and we could very well have a young spinner the next game. I'm excited about that. It certainly is a challenge when you haven't got some of the other guys who have been around. It's a great challenge for me and the rest of the guys but, more importantly, it's a challenge for the bowlers to stand up and make a name for themselves as very good Test bowlers. I think Brett's done a very good job of standing up in Glenn's absence over the last 12 months and will continue to lead the attack well I'm sure. The next spinner is the interesting one for me. We'll see how that pans out." Ponting barely concealed his disappointment at his side's inability to claim victory in Antigua, after five days of milestones, emotion-charged centuries and a somewhat sudden retirement announcement. Kept at bay by Ramnaresh Sarwan (128) and Shivnarine Chanderpaul (77 not out), who batted for the majority of the fifth day during a fourth-wicket stand of 143 runs, the tourists' bowlers were unable to close out the match in the manner expected of recent Australian sides. Ponting declared Australia's innings closed over night at 6-244, setting the West Indies an impossible last-day target of 372. Thanks almost exclusively to the efforts of Sarwan and Chanderpaul, the Windies finished with 5-266 after Ponting, having cast an eye over his exhausted bowlers, agreed to conclude the match five overs earlier than scheduled. The West Indies pair have now scored a combined 525 runs in the two Tests thus far this series, including three centuries and two 50s. Clearly, Australia need to rethink their approach. "We could have done better today," Ponting said. "Stuey MacGill was someone we were going to need to take wickets today if we were going to win the game, and we didn't get the wickets from him. "I don't have any concern with [Johnson]. We're probably going to look at Stuey [Clark] opening the bowling more often than not now, for a number of reasons, like in these sorts of conditions. [Johnson] is a great athlete, and generally he'll do what I ask of him. So Stuey now moving on, the other guys have been good for the last couple of years in Test cricket, and I think Michael Clarke and [symonds] at times in this game have done a reasonable job as well and they're guys that I'm probably going to have to call a little bit more on now, with Shane and Glenn not being around now." http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/weve-gone-backwards-punters-assessment-is-as-blunt-as-his-attack/2008/06/04/1212258909254.html

[King Tendulkar]

Punter agrees with dsr : http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/weve-gone-backwards-punters-assessment-is-as-blunt-as-his-attack/2008/06/04/1212258909254.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

Very good post:--D The ease with which the windies got a draw in last test sums it up. They needed some magic and had none. Even the first test was quite tight and lets not forget the windies are rubbish. They now go right to the bottom in terms of spin bowling. They are coming back to the pack and punter knows it. Now lets see how good a skipper he is:--D

[CC1981]

lets not forget the windies are rubbish.

Errr.....lets not underestimate them. They have the makings of a very strong side..and as we know, we had a very competetive series against them in the west indies. Next time we face them, it will again be in the west indies, 3-4 yrs from now- when our 'batting greats' would be retiring or very close to retiring and their core players still in their peak. Lets not underestimate Chanderpaul too- that guy has always been an India-slayer and he's in golden form right now. He is making a spirited push to join the 50-average club and if that happens, he'd be close to the steve waugh zone. Don't underestimate such teams man- i dont know which planet you live on...but we need to crush other test nations like the Aussies do before we claim we are their equal and not just rely on the traditional Aussie-Indian spirited contests to toot the horn.

[King Tendulkar]

...but we need to crush other test nations like the Aussies do before we claim we are their equal and not just rely on the traditional Aussie-Indian spirited contests to toot the horn.

Like they crushed the windies on the final day of the last test! Punter must be have been crying after that days play, as he sipped at his weak aussie beer that night! Poor guy must have been dreaming of the good old days of the Mcwarnes who would ensure victories on such days!

[zubinpepsi]

Like they crushed the windies on the final day of the last test! Punter must be have been crying after that days play, as he sipped at his weak aussie beer that night! Poor guy must have been dreaming of the good old days of the Mcwarnes who would ensure victories on such days!

dsr, ur old friend is bak here , i guess..:-D

[Chandan]

I think the test series between SA and Australia at the end of this year would be more interesting that India- Australia test series in India after 4 months from now. India has not done well at home since quite some time now and the venues which have been awarded the rights to host these four tests are not India's favourite grounds. In fact India has more or less always lost at Bangalore. SA-Aus test series should be cracker. But I'll still expect Australia to win. Reason? I think their batting is much superior to that of SA, and their attack is not inferior as well. Lee-Clarke combo is as good as Ntini-Styne combo if not better and both Morkel and Johnson are unfinished articles at the moment. Both have a non existent spinner who would not pose much of a threat. Now, Hayden, Jacques, Ponting, Hussey, Clarke, Symonds and then Haddin and Lee are much better than SA's 1-8. Most of us would support SA but I suppose Australia still might come on top.

[The Outsider]

^ Australia have always had a stranglehold over South Africa. Whatever the format, the Saffies just wilt when confronted with the Aussies. I expect another round of defeat for them.

[CC1981]

Like they crushed the windies on the final day of the last test! Punter must be have been crying after that days play, as he sipped at his weak aussie beer that night! Poor guy must have been dreaming of the good old days of the Mcwarnes who would ensure victories on such days!

No, like the way they crushed South Africa and the rest AFTER McWarne retired....face it, OZ even today is an overall stronger team than India is.

[The Outsider]

No' date=' like the way they crushed South Africa and the rest AFTER McWarne retired....face it, OZ even today is an overall stronger team than India is.[/quote'] Don't think the argument here is how they are compared to India, but to themselves two years back - and when did they crush South Africa without McGrath and Warne?

[CC1981]

Don't think the argument here is how they are compared to India, but to themselves two years back

No, it is not comparing Aussies today with 2-3 yrs ago, its a question of whether their era of dominance is over..i don't think so and this kind of pre-conceived jubilation is completely unfounded- this was EXACTLY the kind of celebration happening when Warne retired from ODIs along with Martyn, before that when Wagh brothers went away...fact is, OZ has replaced their superstars well...and until they lose a couple of series, these kind of speculations about their dominance diminishing is unfounded. Yes, they wont crush people by innnings every other test. But so long as they keep winning almost all their series, they will very much continue dominating world cricket.

and when did they crush South Africa without McGrath and Warne?

They didnt have McGrath in 2006 in RSA. Yes, they had Warney, OZ clearly didnt need the services of McGrath to win that series... And against oppositions like India,West Indies, Australia will continue to win as long as they can replace McGrath(which is Clarke).

[The Outsider]

No, it is not comparing Aussies today with 2-3 yrs ago, its a question of whether their era of dominance is over

Depends on what you mean by dominance - a team can be number 1 without being the dominant force, as Australia has been over the last decade. India are currently number 2 but are not a dominant number 2 with a series here and a series there changing things. Expect Australia to be a similar number 1 once the points gathered by McGrath and Warne become history.

But so long as they keep winning almost all their series, they will very much continue dominating world cricket.

The manner of winning series is also important - they were not able to bowl out WI over 100 overs, expect this to become more common without Warne and McGrath.

They didnt have McGrath in 2006 in RSA. Yes, they had Warney, OZ clearly didnt need the services of McGrath to win that series... And against oppositions like India,West Indies, Australia will continue to win as long as they can replace McGrath(which is Clarke).

Clark is good, really good but he is no McGrath and if you think he is you need to watch some old clips of McGrath when he has tormented the likes of Lara and Tendulkar. And I find this bit of your post a bit of a joke really, putting WI and India in the same sentence- a team which has consistently been the only team to challenge Australia over the past decade and one which are at the rank bottom of test rankings. Pretty amusing post.

[Gambit]

Australian bowling is probably at it's weakest in the past 10 years or so. And once Hayden and Ponting go, their batting will be at it's weakest in quite a while.

[The Outsider]

BTW, what's even more laughable in your post is that you are trying to prove Australia will be the same without McGrath and Warne by pointing to a series against South Africa in which Warne picked up 15 wickets in 3 tests!!