Sack the bowling Coach .

[CG]

He has been given enough time now.There is no improvement or even bowling tactics are baffling. I watched Mitchell johnson before the series say how they learned a lot form indian fast bowlers in 2008 series where they used to bow cross seam to get the ball to reverse.We really need someone who has some credibility and experience .Yes our bowlers are not world class but basic things like seam positiom,Landing are not even corrected.

[Pagalpanti]

[saneindian]

Joe Dawes Rhiti wala nahi hai, not even CSK wala..usko rehne de CG yaar

[Pakistan]

Wasim Akram is available.

[don_corleone840]

Indian fast bowling is just pathhhetic.Cant blame coach.

[Junyfan]

please,hire Muhammad Akram.he can speak english too.

[CG]

Joe Dawes Rhiti wala nahi hai' date=' not even CSK wala..usko rehne de CG yaar[/quote'] What is the fatso doing to remain in the coaching staff.He probaly already has a ipl contract.Really we need somebody with some experience .

[King Tendulkar]

please' date='hire Muhammad Akram.he can speak english too.[/quote'] sort of speaks english

[express bowling]

Under Dawes, the spinners have become better and the pacers are probably slower and as inconsistent as they used to be. Ishant still has his wrist action problem.

[bharat297]

India have this stupid fascination with the coaches. If something goes wrong it must be the coach's fault. The failure of one bowler to improve his wrist position should not be an indictment on the coach. Let's see how bowlers like Bhuvaneshwar and Shami progress. I'd like to see Pankaj Singh come into the side. As far as generating pure pace goes, the answer is the wickets in domestic cricket. I've heard they are improving now but you need wickets with at least some bounce in them. Doesn't necessarily have to be grass (e.g. Pakistani wickets of the 90s didn't have much grass but they were a harder and bouncer than Indian pitches). To those that think it shouldn't make a difference, let me give you a scenario. Imagine you are a bowler playing for your Ranji team. You're going to have to bowl 20+ overs in the day and you know it's a flat wicket with assistance for the spinners more than the pacemen. Running in and bowling as fast as you can is going to be a risk because the lack of bounce means that the batsmen can just comfortably play you off the front foot and use their wrists to pick the gap. So the bowlers know that their best chance of getting wickets is through looking for reverse swing or cut and taking the pace off the ball and concentrating more on movement, which in turn can slow you down a bit. Once the curators make a greater variety of pitches in domestic cricket, we'll see improvements in our bowling as well as batting overseas.

[CG]

India have this stupid fascination with the coaches. If something goes wrong it must be the coach's fault. The failure of one bowler to improve his wrist position should not be an indictment on the coach. Let's see how bowlers like Bhuvaneshwar and Shami progress. I'd like to see Pankaj Singh come into the side. As far as generating pure pace goes, the answer is the wickets in domestic cricket. I've heard they are improving now but you need wickets with at least some bounce in them. Doesn't necessarily have to be grass (e.g. Pakistani wickets of the 90s didn't have much grass but they were a harder and bouncer than Indian pitches). To those that think it shouldn't make a difference, let me give you a scenario. Imagine you are a bowler playing for your Ranji team. You're going to have to bowl 20+ overs in the day and you know it's a flat wicket with assistance for the spinners more than the pacemen. Running in and bowling as fast as you can is going to be a risk because the lack of bounce means that the batsmen can just comfortably play you off the front foot and use their wrists to pick the gap. So the bowlers know that their best chance of getting wickets is through looking for reverse swing or cut and taking the pace off the ball and concentrating more on movement, which in turn can slow you down a bit. Once the curators make a greater variety of pitches in domestic cricket, we'll see improvements in our bowling as well as batting overseas.

Lets take ishant case for example.He debuted vs pak and had a good insiwnger even though his seam position was bit wobbly.There was remarkable improvent in his wrist position as he continued to be in the team behind the scenes and it showed in australia where he had an perfect seam position.Next we go to india in 2008 the bowling plans employed were the best i have seen by a indian bowling unit.The use of slower ball which gavaskar mentioned again and again in the commentary in the bangalore test to the use of cross seam bowling in the rest of the test was extraordinary which even aussie bowlers praised. Now switch back to current period his seam position has regressed beyond belief ,Tactics are un inspiring. There are huge problems with his landing which have been pointed by ian pont due to which his pace varies from 130 in one match to 140 in other. Its idiotic to say bowling coach have no role then why have them.Atleast they can correct the basic errors in the bowlers .This is what his seam and wrist position was in cbseries 2008. Also regarding importance of small things i quote ashwin- turnaround in fortunes

The 26-year-old emphasised that he didn’t do anything different from the England series. “I honestly think I didn’t have a bad series against England. I bowled exactly the same way as I had bowled against England. But, today, the wickets were coming. “I would like to dedicate this spell to my coach Sunil Subramaniam, because he identified a small thing about body position and we worked on it for five-six sessions in between the (BCCI) Corporate Trophy and this series,” he revealed. He noted that the pitch didn’t offer as much turn as it was made out to do. “The pitch looked very dirty. After the first 5-10 overs, we thought it was going to spin like a top. It got better with time. There were a few balls which, when tossed up, jumped a little. I think this is the same square on which Karnataka and Tamil Nadu played a 1,000-run game in the Ranji Trophy. I think it’s going to get slower. Reverse swing isn’t a big factor here as it bounces,” he said.

[Sooda]

^ What are the problems with his landing exactly..?

[CG]

^ What are the problems with his landing exactly..?

Ishant Sharma collapsed front leg and lifted back foot before he bowls shows lost pace

[bharat297]

Lets take ishant case for example.He debuted vs pak and had a good insiwnger even though his seam position was bit wobbly.There was remarkable improvent in his wrist position as he continued to be in the team behind the scenes and it showed in australia where he had an perfect seam position.Next we go to india in 2008 the bowling plans employed were the best i have seen by a indian bowling unit.The use of slower ball which gavaskar mentioned again and again in the commentary in the bangalore test to the use of cross seam bowling in the rest of the test was extraordinary which even aussie bowlers praised. Now switch back to current period his seam position has regressed beyond belief ,Tactics are un inspiring. There are huge problems with his landing which have been pointed by ian pont due to which his pace varies from 130 in one match to 140 in other. Its idiotic to say bowling coach have no role then why have them.Atleast they can correct the basic errors in the bowlers .This is what his seam and wrist position was in cbseries 2008. Also regarding importance of small things i quote ashwin- turnaround in fortunes

Not saying that a coach doesn't make a difference but FFS we have to get out of this mentality of EXPECTING the coach to fix things in our bowling. It doesn't take a coach to know when the seam isn't coming out properly. Any bowler with eyes and a working brain would know when the seam isn't coming out correctly. At the end of the day the coach is not the one out there bowling 20-25 overs a day. Players need to take responsibility for their own careers. That's the only way forward for India. Indian fans love blaming coaches for all the problems of the players. Let me point out ... This is not junior cricket. The coaches aren't there to teach the players how to play cricket. These guys are professionals that should know how to improve their game. Coaches simply provide some technical assistance and man management. If we sit around expecting coaches to teach our players we're going to be clueless.

[express bowling]

Not saying that a coach doesn't make a difference but FFS we have to get out of this mentality of EXPECTING the coach to fix things in our bowling. It doesn't take a coach to know when the seam isn't coming out properly. Any bowler with eyes and a working brain would know when the seam isn't coming out correctly. At the end of the day the coach is not the one out there bowling 20-25 overs a day. Players need to take responsibility for their own careers. That's the only way forward for India. Indian fans love blaming coaches for all the problems of the players. Let me point out ... This is not junior cricket. The coaches aren't there to teach the players how to play cricket. These guys are professionals that should know how to improve their game. Coaches simply provide some technical assistance and man management. H If we sit around expecting coaches to teach our players we're going to be clueless.

It is idiotic to say that the bowing coach's role in the national team is very limited. Man management is the main coach's function primarily. If a bowler had some basic technical flaws for a long time and does not get corrected at all then the bowling coach has not performed optimally. If that is not the job of a bowling coach then what is ? Why is he needed at all ? Professional players are not always able to sort out their own problems. There have been lots of interviews where players much better than Ishant have suggested that expert external help have helped them overcome some technical issue. Professionalism includes the ability to work with other professionals and be effective in their duty. It does not mean sorting out everything themselves. Regarding pace, loss of pace is often as a result of bad release, bad rhythm, bad wrist action etc. and these are also areas which require action by the bowling coach. Nobody expects the bowling coach to turn Ishant Sharma into Ambrose but the basic flaws need to be worked on. Bowling coaches are not the be all and end all of a good bowlng outfit but they do have some responsibility.

[bharat297]

It is idiotic to say that the bowing coach's role in the national team is very limited. Man management is the main coach's function primarily. If a bowler had some basic technical flaws for a long time and does not get corrected at all then the bowling coach has not performed optimally. If that is not the job of a bowling coach then what is ? Why is he needed at all ? Professional players are not always able to sort out their own problems. There have been lots of interviews where players much better than Ishant have suggested that expert external help have helped them overcome some technical issue. Professionalism includes the ability to work with other professionals and be effective in their duty. It does not mean sorting out everything themselves. Regarding pace, loss of pace is often as a result of bad release, bad rhythm, bad wrist action etc. and these are also areas which require action by the bowling coach. Nobody expects the bowling coach to turn Ishant Sharma into Ambrose but the basic flaws need to be worked on. Bowling coaches are not the be all and end all of a good bowlng outfit but they do have some responsibility.

Yes but players have the ultimate responsibility too. The images you showed were from back in 2008 when we had venkatesh as bowling coach. A year later we sacked him when our bowlers started performing poorly, as if the performance of the bowlers is the complete responsibility of the coach. Any decent grade cricket bowlers will know when their seam position is not right. They don't need a coach to come and "fix" it. A bowling coach can do the following: * drills to improve rhythm and release * provide advice / strategy against specific players as well as general bowling advice * run through video analysis Now I'm pretty sure just like venkatesh prasad, joe Dawes is doing the same thing. But he is not the one out there bowling 20+ overs a day. If that's still not working and Ishant one bowler is still bowling poorly, is it fair to blame that on the coach? Ultimately it's the players that have to take responsibility for improving their skills. A coach can only do so much.

[bharat297]

Also if a bowler has basic technical flaws then they shouldn't be playing international cricket. Like I said, an international coach should not be expected to be teaching basics here. It's more of a failure of the selectors, the administrators and of course Ishant himself

[Vilander]

Yes but players have the ultimate responsibility too. The images you showed were from back in 2008 when we had venkatesh as bowling coach. A year later we sacked him when our bowlers started performing poorly, as if the performance of the bowlers is the complete responsibility of the coach. Any decent grade cricket bowlers will know when their seam position is not right. They don't need a coach to come and "fix" it. A bowling coach can do the following: * drills to improve rhythm and release * provide advice / strategy against specific players as well as general bowling advice * run through video analysis Now I'm pretty sure just like venkatesh prasad, joe Dawes is doing the same thing. But he is not the one out there bowling 20+ overs a day. If that's still not working and Ishant one bowler is still bowling poorly, is it fair to blame that on the coach? Ultimately it's the players that have to take responsibility for improving their skills. A coach can only do so much.

venky prasadham besht ever..

[CG]

I really do not know why venky got sacked after the t20 wc.He was ideal coach for our bowlers .The plans and length indina bowlers bowled in england,Sa,India were so good i have not seen them implemented again.

[bharat297]

I really do not know why venky got sacked after the t20 wc.He was ideal coach for our bowlers .The plans and length indina bowlers bowled in england' date='Sa,India were so good i have not seen them implemented again.[/quote'] Agree. I thought venkatesh was a good bowling coach.