Why Tendulkar must retire now

[vvvslaxman]

Keep adding reasons why he should quit instead of digging history .. Here is another reason.. Reason 2323: Bounced by a noob.

[BeautifulGame]

Keep adding reasons why he should quit instead of digging history .. Here is another reason.. Reason 2323: Bounced by a noob.

There is a big difference btw wanting Sachin to retire (which I 100% agree) and slagging of his achievements for India.

[Junyfan]

I agree with all posters in this thread,:haha:

[Muloghonto]

Pressure is what a batsman puts on himself. We can't decide if pressure in semis is more than finals for a specific player. What we all know is that the finals matter the most. Yes you can't get to the finals without a semis win' date=' however without a finals win no one gives a damn about whether you got to the finals or not. This is the reason you expect your great ones to step up in the finals AND the semis AND the other crucial games. Unfair may be, but that's how it works in all sports. It is tough to find great players in their sport who have failed in the only finals games they have played in. Yea we are talking WC finals, Grand slam finals, Championship series finals, Olympic finals etc not some random CB series finals or a BS tri series finals.[/quote'] In that case, we should conclude this: a) two/three matches ( total world cup final appearances of even the most experienced batsmen) is not enough of a sample space to conclude anything. b) in sports like cricket or hockey, high level play favours certain type of players. In cricket, its the bowlers, in hockey its the defencemen. This is the same reason why batsmen can fail against great bowlers and still be considered great and this is why hockey forwards barely manage to do anything of note in the stanley cup finals. This is why blind adherence to stats is largely useless.

[Lurker]

In that case, we should conclude this: a) two/three matches ( total world cup final appearances of even the most experienced batsmen) is not enough of a sample space to conclude anything. b) in sports like cricket or hockey, high level play favours certain type of players. In cricket, its the bowlers, in hockey its the defencemen. This is the same reason why batsmen can fail against great bowlers and still be considered great and this is why hockey forwards barely manage to do anything of note in the stanley cup finals. This is why blind adherence to stats is largely useless.

It is more than enough to count where it needs to. Folks like Richard Hadlee, Alan Donald, Ambrose, Lara etc etc never got that chance even once. There is a reason why people remember Arvinda De Silva innings in 96 finals. Or Viv Richards-Kollis King in 1979. Or why the catch by Kapil Dev in 83 finals is termed the most important catch in Indian cricket history. Arguments can be made whole day long, dont care much about it. At the end of the day the World Cup finals are what every player dreams off. And no-one wants to come out sucking. Sachin has not played well in finals. It is a known deal. Lets accept that and move on. :winky:

[Muloghonto]

It is more than enough to count where it needs to. Folks like Richard Hadlee, Alan Donald, Ambrose, Lara etc etc never got that chance even once. There is a reason why people remember Arvinda De Silva innings in 96 finals. Or Viv Richards-Kollis King in 1979. Or why the catch by Kapil Dev in 83 finals is termed the most important catch in Indian cricket history. Arguments can be made whole day long, dont care much about it. At the end of the day the World Cup finals are what every player dreams off. And no-one wants to come out sucking. Sachin has not played well in finals. It is a known deal. Lets accept that and move on. :winky:

He hasnt played well in world cup finals. Of which he's played 2 out of 400+ matches. This is clearly not enough of a sample space to make much of an inference. Also, as i said, Sachin has done exceedingly well in multi-party tournaments, in the knockout or 'must win' stage. Just because we think that World Cup finals are more important does not make it any more 'must win' or 'pressure intensive' as semis, quarters and must-win group matches. As such, if you want to say that Tendy has failed in world cup finals, that is accurate. It is not accurate to say that he is not a pressure performer or a crunch batsman, because in the whole plethora of must win matches, Tendy has an enviable record. making 'pressure/crunch batsmen= who did what in world cup finals' is trolling really hard in the category of who is crunch and who is not.

[Lurker]

He hasnt played well in world cup finals. Of which he's played 2 out of 400+ matches. This is clearly not enough of a sample space to make much of an inference. Also, as i said, Sachin has done exceedingly well in multi-party tournaments, in the knockout or 'must win' stage. Just because we think that World Cup finals are more important does not make it any more 'must win' or 'pressure intensive' as semis, quarters and must-win group matches. As such, if you want to say that Tendy has failed in world cup finals, that is accurate. It is not accurate to say that he is not a pressure performer or a crunch batsman, because in the whole plethora of must win matches, Tendy has an enviable record. making 'pressure/crunch batsmen= who did what in world cup finals' is trolling really hard in the category of who is crunch and who is not.

Nobody cares about multi-party meaningless tournaments. When India beat West Indies in 1983 finals it was the most embarassing moment for them in their cricketing history (atleast for the team). Everyone from Michael Holding to Marshall to Viv Richards are on record saying how badly they wanted to avenge that. By your assertion these gentlemen should have felt equally bad when India beat them in West Indies a few weeks earlier, and in England during the 83 league matches?? You want to check the value of a WC finals, check it with those who lost (Ian Botham for example or Mark Taylor or Ganguly). Nobody gives two hoots about losing in the finals of a Singer Cup or Bathroom Singer cup.

[Muloghonto]

Nobody cares about multi-party meaningless tournaments.

I have never heard that from players. Just because or you I care more about the world cup than the Hero cup doesnt make it any less pressure intensive/must win crunch situation for the professional cricketer.

When India beat West Indies in 1983 finals it was the most embarassing moment for them in their cricketing history (atleast for the team). Everyone from Michael Holding to Marshall to Viv Richards are on record saying how badly they wanted to avenge that. By your assertion these gentlemen should have felt equally bad when India beat them in West Indies a few weeks earlier, and in England during the 83 league matches?? You want to check the value of a WC finals, check it with those who lost (Ian Botham for example or Mark Taylor or Ganguly). Nobody gives two hoots about losing in the finals of a Singer Cup or Bathroom Singer cup.

None of those examples are must win matches. Players may care less about meaningless matches ( matches where you win or lose, you still advance), but if your argument is that World Cup finals matter more than World Cup Semi finals, then from player perspective, you have no case. For what matters to players, is if it is a must win situation or not. Whether it is a league match, semis, quarters or finals, is largely irrelevant to the player. My contention is that Tendy is as crunch and big game player as any in the history of ODI cricket, because his record in must win matches ( must win group stages, semis, quarters and finals) is as good as/greater than 99.99% batsmen in history. Simply because he failed in one type of 'must win matches' ( finals) does not make him any greater or lesser player than Ponting who's failed in another type of 'must win matches' ( semis). These are artificial 'glamour criteria' added by the fans that have no real impact in actually playing the game.

[Ultimate_Game]

I have never heard that from players. Just because or you I care more about the world cup than the Hero cup doesnt make it any less pressure intensive/must win crunch situation for the professional cricketer. None of those examples are must win matches. Players may care less about meaningless matches ( matches where you win or lose, you still advance), but if your argument is that World Cup finals matter more than World Cup Semi finals, then from player perspective, you have no case. For what matters to players, is if it is a must win situation or not. Whether it is a league match, semis, quarters or finals, is largely irrelevant to the player. My contention is that Tendy is as crunch and big game player as any in the history of ODI cricket, because his record in must win matches ( must win group stages, semis, quarters and finals) is as good as/greater than 99.99% batsmen in history. Simply because he failed in one type of 'must win matches' ( finals) does not make him any greater or lesser player than Ponting who's failed in another type of 'must win matches' ( semis). These are artificial 'glamour criteria' added by the fans that have no real impact in actually playing the game.

Fact remains that the biggest game a cricketer can play is the WC Final, just like Superbowl is the pinnacle in NFL/football. You can go on and on how a Kitply Cup final is as important or pressure intensive as a WC Final but sadly that's not the case. One of the reasons why WC final game has so much pressure is that players know they may only get one shot at it in their whole careers. Just the fact a player may play 400 games and get 1 or 2 shots at WC final tells you the kind of pressure that comes along with that game. Most players from top cricketing nations will get more opportunities to play in more WC games or even more WC knockout games but no guarantee they will get to play another WC final. You may continue to believe cricketers don't differentiate between a Kitply Cup final and a WC final like us "fans" but that's BS. Read any player's interview and they will tell you what a WC final means to them. Players like Mahela and Sanga would trade all their ICC tourney finals' appearances for 1 title if they could have it.

[Deleted_User_1]

apparently his ODI retirement was also forced

Absolutely. I am almost certain he was forced into retirement in ODIs or face getting dropped.

[Ultimate_Game]

Absolutely. I am almost certain he was forced into retirement in ODIs or face getting dropped.

You couldn't be more wrong. If Tendulkar comes out and makes a statement today that he has rethought his decision to retire from odis and is available for odis till 2015 WC, nobody will have the balls to drop him. Sad truth is unless Tendulkar decides to retire, he will continue to be picked regardless of his performances or lack thereof.

[Deleted_User_1]

You couldn't be more wrong. If Tendulkar comes out and makes a statement today that he has rethought his decision to retire from odis and is available for odis till 2015 WC' date=' nobody will have the balls to drop him. Sad truth is unless Tendulkar decides to retire, he will continue to be picked regardless of his performances or lack thereof.[/quote'] Ummm....not so sure about that. I think he was forced out and he will be again. I expect him to announce his retirement before the SA series once it is communicated to him that he will not be picked.

[Raghav_12]

Gilly's scores in 3 world cup Semi finals : 20 (99 wc) ' date= 22 (03 wc) and 1 (2007 wc) Sachin : 65 (96 wc ) , 83 ( 03) and 85 (2011 wc) Unless u can come up with a theory that World cup Semi finals arent must win games we can conclude that Sachin is a better big match player than Gilly.

:hysterical::hysterical: Utter Pawnage.

[carnish]

Gilly's scores in 3 world cup Semi finals : 20 (99 wc) ' date= 22 (03 wc) and 1 (2007 wc) Sachin : 65 (96 wc ) , 83 ( 03) and 85 (2011 wc) Unless u can come up with a theory that World cup Semi finals arent must win games we can conclude that Sachin is a better big match player than Gilly.

Sachin ... 03 WC ... SF against Kenya 2011 WC ... 4 times dropped 96 WC ... Class innings still not match winning Gilchrist ... All 3 Finals knock by Gilly came against teams who were 2nd favourites to Win the Cup. In 1999, some would say Pakistan were the Favourites even, though it was an easy chase and all 3 innings had a big impact on the game. SF 03 ... Gilly walked when umprie had given him N.O SF 99 ... Pollock and Donald were in superb form on a pitch where even McGrath was ineffective. SF 07 ... Failed in a Match where Saffers were all out for 149. Not Arguing but fact is you cannot compare the impact of a Gilchrist, a Jayasuriya or a Sehwag to Sachin. Maybe in the 90s when I didn't see too much cricket but in the new millennium Sachin has had very few crucial innings in knockout ODI games. Best I have seen from him is CB series in 2008.

[Crookbond]

Sachin ... 03 WC ... SF against Kenya 2011 WC ... 4 times dropped 96 WC ... Class innings still not match winning Gilchrist ... All 3 Finals knock by Gilly came against teams who were 2nd favourites to Win the Cup. In 1999, some would say Pakistan were the Favourites even, though it was an easy chase and all 3 innings had a big impact on the game. SF 03 ... Gilly walked when umprie had given him N.O SF 99 ... Pollock and Donald were in superb form on a pitch where even McGrath was ineffective. SF 07 ... Failed in a Match where Saffers were all out for 149. Not Arguing but fact is you cannot compare the impact of a Gilchrist, a Jayasuriya or a Sehwag to Sachin. Maybe in the 90s when I didn't see too much cricket but in the new millennium Sachin has had very few crucial innings in knockout ODI games. Best I have seen from him is CB series in 2008.

Suddenly, things seem different now!

[vamos_rafa]

Suddenly' date=' things seem different now![/quote'] Wait. Oz chased a massive score of 123 in the finals of the WC. That task was as uphill for Pakistan as it was for India to chase 360 in the 2003 WC. Or did Wasim and co choke there? :hmmm:

[vamos_rafa]

Suddenly' date=' things seem different now![/quote'] And walking or no walking, he was out. It was his personal prerogative to do so.

[Crookbond]

Wait. Oz chased a massive score of 123 in the finals of the WC. That task was as uphill for Pakistan as it was for India to chase 360 in the 2003 WC. Or did Wasim and co choke there? :hmmm:

And walking or no walking' date=' he was out. It was his personal prerogative to do so.[/quote'] I understand where BG came from. He wanted to make a point but Carnish launched a brilliant counter-argument. :winky: It still doesn't change my opinion that Tendulkar can retire when he wants to but he should be dropped now.

[vamos_rafa]

I understand where BG came from. He wanted to make a point but Carnish launched a brilliant counter-argument. :winky: It still doesn't change my opinion that Tendulkar can retire when he wants to but he should be dropped now.

That's what I agree to as well. But that was not the moot point. The point was how Sachin, inpite having a very good record in the eliminators of the WC(and only WC) is considered a choker. And when same counter-arguements are presented for others, it's not worth considering.

[carnish]

That's what I agree to as well. But that was not the moot point. The point was how Sachin' date=' inpite having a very good record in the eliminators of the WC(and only WC) is considered a choker. And when same counter-arguements are presented for others, it's not worth considering.[/quote'] Sachin is not a choker ... He is a big match player ... But let us give into it ... His impact on the game (KO or otherwise) hasn't been as big as someone like Gilly, Jayasuriya or Sehwag. He does perform in big games, but doesn't make a match winning statement apart from say CB Series 08 and Sharjah 98. Well I havent watched too many games in the 90s, so there may be some more, like with his bowling in Hero Cup maybe.