straighttalk Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 :hysterical: When cornered to furnish facts, watch these *****us have a meltdown. What an internet addicted hawabaaz such as you doesn't realize is that it's me who's sticking to the minimum facts available in the public. You are the one who trundled into this thread making snide remark that people are just looking to 'bash congress' - nevermind the fact that not once did I mention any party or the UPA. Now once again, i ask you. What was the status quo prior to April 15 that nobody apart from you seem to be aware of? The facts are that it was the Chinese who entered 27 KMs deep inside the Indian side of LAC. Restoring status quo would mean Chinese withdraw unilaterally. Given this indisputed fact, could you explain what this mutual withdrawal is without suffering another meltdown, hilarious as they are? Status quo means both sides withdrew to positions held before 15th April. In response to Chinese incursion, India set up camp 300 m away from the Chinese platoon. That camp has now been dismantled and Indian troops have moved back to the position they were in before this fiasco started. and china has withdrawn back to its own position.
ravishingravi Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Status quo means both sides withdrew to positions held before 15th April. In response to Chinese incursion' date= India set up camp 300 m away from the Chinese platoon. That camp has now been dismantled and Indian troops have moved back to the position they were in before this fiasco started. and china has withdrawn back to its own position. Thats nice. But what were the positions prior to Aoril 15 ?
gs Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Thats nice. But what were the positions prior to April 15 ? Positions prior to April 15 my foot!!! India destroyed bunkers in Chumar to resolve Ladakh row, Army officers confirm As usual the Cong govt lied to the nation. They traded away our bunkers in Chumar region for the "truce". I'm sure they'll sell their mothers and daughters to the Chinese if the price is right. :facepalm:
bulbul Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 I think we shouldn't speculate and have to wait till Con party releases the details about deal.
gs Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 I think we shouldn't speculate and have to wait till Con party releases the details about deal. :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:
straighttalk Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Thats nice. But what were the positions prior to Aoril 15 ? so china entered 19 kms into indian territory..and set up camp. india also set up camp close to the chinese camp...india also moved some troops forward from their normal position. now both sides have returned to their original position.
bulbul Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 so china entered 19 kms into indian territory..and set up camp. india also set up camp close to the chinese camp...india also moved some troops forward from their normal position. now both sides have returned to their original position. Isn't this 19km inside Indian territory?
straighttalk Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 ya it is in a territory governed by india but claimed by china....so it would have been difficult for just an unilateral withdrawal by China..so both armies moved back to April 15 th position...
bulbul Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 ya it is in a territory governed by india but claimed by china....so it would have been difficult for just an unilateral withdrawal by China..so both armies moved back to April 15 th position... So then its a failed diplomacy by us.
CG Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 India demolishes Himalaya outpost to end China standoff (Reuters) - India has agreed to a Chinese demand to demolish a remote army position near their de facto border in the Himalayas, Indian sources said, as part of a deal to end a standoff that threatened to scupper slowly improving relations. Indian and Chinese soldiers faced off 100 metres (330 feet) apart on a plateau near the Karakoram mountain range, where they fought a war 50 years ago, for three weeks until they reached a deal on Sunday for both sides to withdraw. The tension had threatened to overshadow a visit by the Indian foreign minister to Beijing on May 9. China's Premier Li Keqiang is expected to visit India later this month. India said up to 50 Chinese soldiers set up camp in its territory on the western rim of the Himalayas on April 15. Some Indian officials and experts believed the incursion signalled Chinese concern about increased Indian activity in the area. The Chinese camp was in an area India said was 19 km (12 miles) beyond what it understands to be the border in the Ladakh region of Kashmir, a vaguely defined line called the Line of Actual Control, which neither side agrees on. Details of the deal have not been made public and there were differing versions about what had been dismantled. A source with direct knowledge of the decision making in New Delhi said India agreed to take down a temporary metal-roofed shelter in the Chumar area, further south along the disputed border. The source said the dismantled shelter had been erected in Chumar shortly after China set up camp on the plateau. However, an official from the Indian army's northern command said India had taken down more permanent structures from Chumar. "The bunkers in Chumar were dismantled after we acceded to Chinese demand in the last flag meeting. These bunkers were live-in bunkers," the army officer told Reuters on Tuesday. China won the border war they fought in 1962, which soured relations for decades, but ties between the Asian giants have been improving. China is India's top trade partner and the two occasionally hold joint military exercises. India has been beefing up its military presence for several years on the remote Ladakh plateau, building roads and runways to catch up with Chinese development across the border in a disputed area known as Aksai Chin The decision to agree to the Chinese demand followed heavy criticism of the Indian government over its handling of the incident by the opposition. An official in India's Defence Ministry said on Monday the deal to end the standoff was "quid pro quo" and said China had also demanded India take down listening and observation posts in the Chumar area, which is close to a Chinese road through Tibet. The source in New Delhi denied India was dismantling anything more than the border shelter. (Reporting by Fayaz Bukhari in SRINAGAR; Additional reporting by Nigam Prusty; Writing by Frank Jack Daniel; Editing by Alison Williams) http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/05/07/india-china-himalayas-ladakh-idINDEE94606R20130507
bulbul Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 The bunkers in Chumar were dismantled after we acceded to Chinese demand in the last flag meeting. These bunkers were live-in bunkers," the army officer told Reuters on Tuesday Looks like chinese soldiers came to supervise dismantling of bunkers.
ravishingravi Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 China's and India's Dangerous Game http://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/05/chinas-and-indias-dangerous-game/275622/
gs Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 What's this nonsensical April 15th position that you keep parroting about? There was NO such position, the territory was under Indian control. Restoring status quo means it's only and only the Chinese who go back to their side of the LAC. Indian army should be free to position itself wherever the hell it decides within the Indian side of LAC. Absolutely, but the govt owned media spin seems to suggest some eff up which they are desperately trying to cover up.
straighttalk Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 What's this nonsensical April 15th position that you keep parroting about? There was NO such position, the territory was under Indian control. Restoring status quo means it's only and only the Chinese who go back to their side of the LAC. Indian army should be free to position itself wherever the hell it decides within the Indian side of LAC. it is called peace time positions...you do not bring your troops close to the border..there is an unwritten rule...as it is regarded as an escalation calling for a tit for tat response..while technically you are within rights to do so..it is common sense not to do so unless your intention is to mobilize. a key to good negotiation is to make both parties feel like winners..why would china go back when it is in advantageous position...unless india also did some symbolic gesture so that they can spin it to their domestic audience.... this is not your street brawl where you can use force to win..ofocourse the other option is to blast the chinese platoon and then prepare for war just as vajpyee did after parliament attack with a weaker enemy and wasting thousand of crores and getting zilch in return...give credit where it is due...congress is far better than bjp in foreign affairs...irrespective of their corrupt ministers
bulbul Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 it is called peace time positions...you do not bring your troops close to the border..there is an unwritten rule...as it is regarded as an escalation calling for a tit for tat response..while technically you are within rights to do so..it is common sense not to do so unless your intention is to mobilize. a key to good negotiation is to make both parties feel like winners..why would china go back when it is in advantageous position...unless india also did some symbolic gesture so that they can spin it to their domestic audience.... this is not your street brawl where you can use force to win..ofocourse the other option is to blast the chinese platoon and then prepare for war just as vajpyee did after parliament attack with a weaker enemy and wasting thousand of crores and getting zilch in return...give credit where it is due...congress is far better than bjp in foreign affairs...irrespective of their corrupt ministers Chinese are dumb , they send 50 soldiers inside Indian area , then feel like winners because of negotiation :two_thumbs_up:
Raghav_12 Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 Things are not as straight forward as they make look without having any kind of first hand experience. Two things we shouldkeep in mind while bashing our government. First is that in those Himalayan terrains boundaries are not well defined as we may see on the map. India claims of boundaries are disouted by China and similar Chinese claims by India. So agreement in those areas are stay where you are. Second thing is while technically you are allowed to put your troops wherever you want within your boundaries but in practicality it doesn't work that way. One country can't have build-up of it's army just adjacent to other country's border without escalating tension with that country.Whenever Pakistan moves it's army towards Indian border we always het alarmed and media wodely report such movements. India responds to such movements with similar moves. Point I am trying to make that it's practically naive to think that India pushes all it's army and missiles to chinese border without China feeling heat. Not that India is doing such thing, but trying to explain that practical things are different from technical ones.
bulbul Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 Things are not as straight forward as they make look without having any kind of first hand experience. Two things we shouldkeep in mind while bashing our government. First . But people are jmping up and down to give Govt. credit without having full details :dontknow:
Mariyam Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 so china entered 19 kms into indian territory..and set up camp. india also set up camp close to the chinese camp...india also moved some troops forward from their normal position. now both sides have returned to their original position. If that were so, shouldn't the primary responsibility to thwart (or at least detect) such an attempt lie with the regional/border region commander? How could the Chinese enter 19 kms into Indian territory, and our authorities be unaware? I'm no expert on military matters, but I've always wondered why we never mine those border regions. Its not likely to cause much ecological harm i.e there aren't many animals crossing over at that altitude, one would think.
straighttalk Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 they might be mined but modern armies have anti mine technology...at the most it will be delayed...the terrain is extremely harsh to be patrolled as extensively as say the indo pak border....
straighttalk Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 Peace time position is determined by a country based on its own threat perceptions and analysis. It's not some position set in stone or a position on which a hostile neighbour can have any say. Given that it was the Chinese who intruded, how on earth can they insist that India go back to some earlier position in spite of their act of aggression? The worst is that you're entirely cooking up this fictitious tale of peace time position. Indian army setting up a camp 19 KMs within its own territory does not amount to assuming war like posture. But look who I am responding to. Another Congress apologist looking to bang his little tin tin drum. "Congress is far better in foreign affairs" - I hope you're remunerated well for typing that otherwise I'll conclude you're into masochism with a special need for public humiliation. I'll remember not to take you seriously henceforth. no bring your army close to chinese border..and watch how china reacts...no country in the world would like to rachet up tension unless it is required...its not economical as well as not prudent....bringing troops close would make china react accordingly and then things might go out of hand...
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