Sachin tendulkar vs Ms Dhoni :Who is India`s greatest Odi cricketer of all time ??

[The Outsider]

What I do know is we were cr@p before Dhoni arrived on the scene and I have no doubt we will be cr@p once Dhoni retires. For once in my lifetime I actually saw India winning the big tournaments' date=' which I have to admit I never thought I would be able to just a few years back.[/quote'] Oh please! It's one thing to admire a sportsman, but some of you guys take it to a completely different level by not even being able to differentiate between correlation and causality. Not that the correlation part is even true - we were crap before Dhoni? How come we won the WC by beating one the best sides in cricket history in '83? How did we completely dominate the '85 World Championship without Dhoni? How did we annihilate one opposition after another in '03? What difference would Dhoni have made in the '03 final? According to you Ponting would be the greatest Australian cricketer ever, regardless of the fact that he struggles to make most all time XIs of Australia.

[Raghav_12]

Dhoni for me. We couldn't win in Aus & SA with Tendulkar or with Dhoni' date=' but at least with Dhoni we were able to win World Cup, World T20 and Champions Trophy.[/quote'] Sachin won us CB series in Australia. Sachin took us to WC final in SA.

[Crookbond]

The question here is - How do we measure a player X contribution towards a team? This particularly when we have no access to a lot of things which happen behind the scenes. IDK if we can do that but surely MS Dhoni has to be in the Top 5 ODI cricketers India has produced.

[maniac]

Is this even a comparison....SRT by miles. Lloyd vs VIV-Who is the greater cricketer? Ponting vs Warne-Is another one I can think of

[G_B_]

I do remember Sachin winning us the commonwealth bank series by playing some awesome innings in the finals in 2008 in Aus v Aus. If you actually look at MSD's numbers in the tournaments india have won, he had an average 2007 t20 wc with the bat. 2011 barring the final (and i know it was a big innings) and even 2013 Champions trophy (averaging 27 with the bat). You can say MSD has never carried India in tournaments. Sachin carried india in 1996 WC 2003 WC and was india's highest run scorer in 2011.

[maniac]

The question here is - How do we measure a player X contribution towards a team? This particularly when we have no access to a lot of things which happen behind the scenes. IDK if we can do that but surely MS Dhoni has to be in the Top 5 ODI cricketers India has produced.

Simple......Dhoni's contribution as a cricketer was no doubt invaluable...but his "leadership" aspect while being important is overrated.

[Ultimate_Game]

Sachin won us CB series in Australia. Sachin took us to WC final in SA.

CB Series and WC final loss compared to WC final win + Champs Trophy win + World T20 win. I know which one I prefer.

[maniac]

Dhoni no doubt will be rated as one of the most succesful captains of all time but as a WK bat he will always be behind Gilchrist,As a ODI batsman he will be in the top 5-and that is even a longshot.

[maniac]

CB Series and WC final loss compared to WC final win + Champs Trophy win + World T20 win. I know which one I prefer.

So how does winning a championship make Dhoni a better "player" than SRT :facepalm: As a captain yes,he is one of the best in recent times but not as a player by any means....seems like you are not getting the point

[Crookbond]

Simple......Dhoni's contribution as a cricketer was no doubt invaluable...but his "leadership" aspect while being important is overrated.

The problem in saying "overrated" is that we do not know what the benchmark is viz. me, you are in no position to judge it. Of course, time will reveal the true value of his contributions. After all - familiarity breeds contempt.

[Ultimate_Game]

Oh please! It's one thing to admire a sportsman, but some of you guys take it to a completely different level by not even being able to differentiate between correlation and causality. Not that the correlation part is even true - we were crap before Dhoni? How come we won the WC by beating one the best sides in cricket history in '83? How did we completely dominate the '85 World Championship without Dhoni? How did we annihilate one opposition after another in '03? What difference would Dhoni have made in the '03 final? According to you Ponting would be the greatest Australian cricketer ever, regardless of the fact that he struggles to make most all time XIs of Australia.

We were good for a brief period of time - 1983-85 when we won the WC final and the World Championship Cup - but that's it. Under Dhoni, I actually felt we could beat anyone, which as an Indian fan was something new for me. Each to his/her own but to me the team looked like a world beater in major tourneys.

[maniac]

The problem in saying "overrated" is that we do not know what the benchmark is viz. me' date=' you are in no position to judge it. Of course, time will reveal the true value of his contributions. After all - familiarity breeds contempt.[/quote'] I may be missing the point of this thread but ask any westindian who is a greater cricketer Viv or Lloyd,despite Lloyd doing a lot more for WI cricket in his time than Dhoni ever did(Rhiti,etc but topic for another day)-the answer will be Viv. Ask Srilankans if they rate Ranatunga over Murali This is a similar comparison IMHO

[Ultimate_Game]

So how does winning a championship make Dhoni a better "player" than SRT :facepalm: As a captain yes,he is one of the best in recent times but not as a player by any means....seems like you are not getting the point

I am simply stating that if I have to make a choice to pick between Tendulkar or Dhoni, I would pick Dhoni. My opinion and you may feel free to disagree.

[maniac]

I am simply stating that if I have to make a choice to pick wither Tendulkar or Dhoni' date=' I would pck Dhoni.[/quote'] On what basis?....If you are picking an alltime Indian XI for ODI than both SRT and Dhoni will make it into the team hands down.... .If it is an alltime World X1 for ODI....Dhoni will always be behind Gilchrist where as SRT will be a shoo -in in the opening slot

[JaFanatic]

We were good for a brief period of time - 1983-85 when we won the WC final and the World Championship Cup - but that's it. Under Dhoni the team I actually felt we could beat anyone, which as an Indian fan was something new for me. Each to his/her own but to me the team looked like a world beater in major tourneys.

hope you remember we were part of 2008 2010 and 2012 T20I championships p.s not to forget the recent asia cup

[The Outsider]

Dhoni no doubt will be rated as one of the most succesful captains of all time but as a WK bat he will always be behind Gilchrist' date='[b']As a ODI batsman he will be in the top 5-and that is even a longshot.

Dude, I can name Tendulkar, Richards, Dean Jones, Ponting, Gilchrist, Martin Crowe, Haynes, and Miandad off the top of my head as clearly better ODI batsmen. Greenidge, Azhar, Bevan would run him close as well.

[Crookbond]

I may be missing the point of this thread but ask any westindian who is a greater cricketer Viv or Lloyd,despite Lloyd doing a lot more for WI cricket in his time than Dhoni ever did(Rhiti,etc but topic for another day)-the answer will be Viv. Ask Srilankans if they rate Ranatunga over Murali This is a similar comparison IMHO

FYI - I never said Dhoni is India's greatest ODI cricketer.

[maniac]

Dude' date=' I can name Tendulkar, Richards, Dean Jones, Ponting, Gilchrist, Martin Crowe, Haynes, and Miandad off the top of my head as clearly better ODI batsmen. Greenidge, Azhar, Bevan would run him close as well.[/quote'] I don't rate DHoni super-highly even with captaincy despite his high accolades,just threw in a debatable ball park number out there....but in ODI's as a WK-Batsmen he is my No2 after Gilchrist. PS:Iam sure he is better than Greenidge and Azhar out of the people you have named

[The Outsider]

We were good for a brief period of time - 1983-85 when we won the WC final and the World Championship Cup - but that's it. Under Dhoni, I actually felt we could beat anyone, which as an Indian fan was something new for me. Each to his/her own but to me the team looked like a world beater in major tourneys.

What under Dhoni, under Dhoni? Have you guys even played a serious cricket match in your lives to be so simplistic that you give all credit to the captain if the team does well by parroting under Dhoni under Dhoni thread after thread. It's nauseating to read the marginalization of players in this hero worship.

[Ultimate_Game]

On what basis?....If you are picking an alltime Indian XI for ODI than both SRT and Dhoni will make it into the team hands down.... .If it is an alltime World X1 for ODI....Dhoni will always be behind Gilchrist where as SRT will be a shoo -in in the opening slot

On the basis of no. of big tourney wins we had with Dhoni.

hope you remember we were part of 2008 2010 and 2012 T20I championships p.s not to forget the recent asia cup

You don't win all the tourneys and given our history, where we only had 1983 WC to look at, the no. of big tourney wins we had under Dhoni is not something to sneer at. As for recent Asia Cup do you really want to know who actually ended up costing us the tourney (Hint: 100th 100) :haha: