Should India play 4 seamers now on greentops on overseas tours

[Mornantau]

Assuming that SA tour takes place, would u reckon India should play 4 seamers or 3 seam + 1 spin attack ? This is with regard to following concerns : 1) Historically India has always played at least one spinner in their attack. However, historically India has also lacked 4 decent seamers who cud represent them at Intl level. Ideally a team should play the bowlers who'd maximise the possibility of taking 20 wickets on that particular surface and conditions. 2 ) Ashwin isn't a big turner of the ball like Muttiah or Warne (also noting his test performance in Australia) perhaps it would be best to go with 4 rponged pace attack. 3) the 1st test against India in countries like England, Australia n SA is likely to be played on a greentop to give the home team an advantage. Thus a spinner is likely to only fill up overs when the seamers are tired. India should take a risk and play four bowlers in such conditions which are anyway not in India's favour 4) If Sir Jadeja is played as the 7th batsman then overs can be filled up by him as a spinner. 5) If Zak is Back, then we can play Bhuvi, Zak, Umesh & Yadav or one of the young guys like Ishwar Pandey or Aaron etc. so we will have a decent attack that is not wastin time defending runs but actually trying to take wickets.

[GrandMasterSaxy]

India will go with 3 Fast bowlers and 2 spinners. Though Ashwin is not a big turner but he has the ability to bowl for long and quite consistent, plus he is a good Test batsman. I hope Mishra is accommodated at the expense of Ashwin. I personally feel Zak need to be picked solely on the basis of performance; at the moment Bhuvi, Yadav and Ishant look decent and good enough to be picked.

[Scarves]

The only place you would play 4 quicks is Perth. So looking at India's bowling stocks with their quicks (Bhuvi, Yadav and Ishant) with backups of course. India should play 3 bowlers max in their team when they play away at England, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia. Ashwin isn't going to be like Warne but he can still play the containing role and still pick up wickets here and there by adding pressure. Ashwin is a quality bowler and he will do that. Plus the last time India played 4 pace bowlers, it didn't end well. Actually it ended quickly.

[Mornantau]

When was that ? Dont remember. please remind who were the bowlers Also I was talking wr to SA pitch .. which is not as fast as Perth but still very green. So even a medium pacer with swing or seam can so some damage

[Lord]

lol even SA wouldnt play 4 seamers if Kallis doesnt bowl,even they play Petersen we need to play 3 good pacers+Ashwin.our seamers should be our strike options

[King Tendulkar]

Dont need to worry about this. BCCI arranging so we never play overseas again

[Mornantau]

I think teams have played an all seam attack against India in the past on overseas tours. I think Australia comes to mind n not sure England tried the same sometime. I really dont think right now we have the spinners who can make a big difference in Tests on wickets that dont aid them. No disrespect to Ashwin though he is a talented bowler but needs more experience. Also SA are not weak against spin anymore, they have Kallis, AB etc

[Mornantau]

Actually if thats Robin Peterson then he's been played for some of his batting ability too. But anyway with SAs attack Steyn Morkel etc they pretty much didnt need a fourth bowler or just needed one to fill in the overs. India on the other hand dont have such potent fast bowlers so perhaps play more of them so that is each guy can get approx 2 - 3 wickets per innings (just averaging out) then we can bowl oppositions out. Co right now cant see our bowlers getting 4 - 5 wickets too often. N for our spinners its even difficult to get 2 - 3 wickets on a greentop. ?

[Scarves]

When was that ? Dont remember. please remind who were the bowlers Also I was talking wr to SA pitch .. which is not as fast as Perth but still very green. So even a medium pacer with swing or seam can so some damage

Perth 2012 - David Warner happened. Sharma, Zaheer, Yadav and Vinay Kumar. You still need a spinner. SA and Australia are the only two teams that can get away with playing all quick bowlers and I don't see both doing it unless it is against a weaker team in Perth or Newlands. SA could play Morkal, Steyn, Philander or Rory Kleinvelt/de Lange/Abbott/Tsotobe even if they have Kallis who barely bowlers anymore but they have Peterson who is okay and they play him. Australia could play Siddle, Harris, Johnson/Starc and Pattinson/Bird but they will play a Nathan Lyon who is pretty underrated. I don't see SA playing Tahir after that Australian series. In regards to Ashwin he is great bowler but in SA and Australia and I guess England and NZ, you'll won't get spinning wickets. So he has to just put on pressure and contain. India don't have the quality and depth of fast bowlers that Australia and South Africa have and I guess England to some extent.

[Mornantau]

Perth 2012 - David Warner happened. Sharma, Zaheer, Yadav and Vinay Kumar. You still need a spinner. SA and Australia are the only two teams that can get away with playing all quick bowlers and I don't see both doing it unless it is against a weaker team in Perth or Newlands. In regards to Ashwin he is great bowler but in SA and Australia and I guess England and NZ, you'll won't get spinning wickets. So he has to just put on pressure and contain. India don't have the quality and depth of fast bowlers that Australia and South Africa have and I guess England to some extent.

Which brings up another interesting question .... is there sense in trying to contain batsmen in Tests when the only way u can win is by taking wickets. So if u had to choose between a bowler who's damn good at containing but wud hardly get wickets and one who was bound to be belted but also sure to get wickets whom wud u pick ? Of course a containing bowler might be a reasonable insurance policy against losing the test match when the odds go against u. But should that be the mentality going into a Test or should it be all about trying to win the Test, n pick players accordingly ? Regarding your mention of last time India played four seamers, I think two out of those 4 bowlers are pretty useless, but I feel now that India has Bhuvi n Shami Ahmed, with Ishwar Pandey doin decent in SA n Varun Aaron returning from injuries to try n get back to bowling at NCA, perhaps we may be able to put together a better 4 seam attack ?

[Scarves]

The more you contain, the more pressure you build which leads to the an increase in the chance of claiming a wicket. Ashwin has done and will continue to do that. I don't think India should ever play 4 fast bowlers, they aren't as good as South Africa and Australia when it comes to quality and depth in their fast bowling stocks.

[G_B_]

It depends on the type of bowlers we have. if India have 4 good seamers then i really dont understand the point of playing a spinner on a green top. Say Bhuvi Umesh Pandey and another seamer average in 31 and below with the ball then IMO India will be stupid not to play them on a green top. Ashwin for example leaked too many runs too easily in Australia. Would prefer Sir in the containing role.

[G_B_]

and in the case of south africa. Once Kallis calls quits and Peterson does not perform IMO SA will play 4 frontline seamers supported by Duminy. Steyn Morkel Philander Hendricks+ Duminy. If you notice the ODIs and T20s in the sub, South africa are seeing him more and more as a spinning all rounder. Very underrated bowler IMO.

[Mornantau]

It depends on the type of bowlers we have. if India have 4 good seamers then i really dont understand the point of playing a spinner on a green top. Say Bhuvi Umesh Pandey and another seamer average in 31 and below with the ball then IMO India will be stupid not to play them on a green top. Ashwin for example leaked too many runs too easily in Australia. Would prefer Sir in the containing role.

My thots too

[Scarves]

But in Australia minus Kumble and obviously Warne and MacGill, you don't see spinners doing a good job there. I just don't feel that India's fast bowlers are good enough to play a 4 pronged attack especially since Ashwin is a solid player. To be fair on Ashwin in that 2011/12 series, they had to contain Clarke in a purple patch, Hussey and Ponting who were amazing.

[Mornantau]

Yeah but if u dont see spinners doin a good job there (n I dont think Kumble did too well etiher over in later series down under) then dont u need to keep someone ready who can do a better job. I think opposition to playing 4 seamers on an overseas tour is much more a case of conservative mentality rather then merit. Even a medium pacer like Prasad was more effective in SA greentop than spinners, as far as I can recall. Not that I am proposing we play 4 Ishant grade bowlers in one bowling attack. But selections and preparations for tours should be based arnd long term strategy, n so I think India should try to prepare 4 fast bowlers for pitches where spinners r likely to be ineffective Anyway, Dhobi's gonna do what Dhobi's gonna do.

[G_B_]

But in Australia minus Kumble and obviously Warne and MacGill, you don't see spinners doing a good job there. I just don't feel that India's fast bowlers are good enough to play a 4 pronged attack especially since Ashwin is a solid player. To be fair on Ashwin in that 2011/12 series, they had to contain Clarke in a purple patch, Hussey and Ponting who were amazing.

we are talking about green tops.

[cricketpitch]

It depends on the type of bowlers we have. if India have 4 good seamers then i really dont understand the point of playing a spinner on a green top. Say Bhuvi Umesh Pandey and another seamer average in 31 and below with the ball then IMO India will be stupid not to play them on a green top. Ashwin for example leaked too many runs too easily in Australia. Would prefer Sir in the containing role.

Ashwin has played only one overseas tour and you already want him to be dropped? Australia is a tough place for a spinner. I guess Ashwin needs to get more overseas tours before we pass judgement on his ability. Better spinners have had poor records in Australia, so Ashwin on this first tour cannot be blamed for that performance. We need to give him more chances. We will know by this time next year whether he is good enough.

[Mornantau]

Fair enough I guess, nothing against Ashwin. but what should take precedence, doing justice to a player or doing justice to such an important overseas tour that comes every 2 -yrs ? I think the question should more aptly be posted as which attack wud be more potent for India in SA : a four seam attack or a 3seam 1 spin attack. ?

[vishalvirsingh]

Horses for Courses is Always the Key...... If its a Green top - v need 4 fast bowlers If it is a greenish brown pitch- 3 fast and Ashwin If its brownish than ashwin Amit (leg spinner) Umesh n bhvi