What does Bhuvi have to do to pick up wickets in India?

[G_B_]

Firstly let me make things clear. I dont want bhuvi to be dropped from the side as of now. Secondly we all know he is "gun" in foreign conditions (outside the subcontinent) (21 average away) Thridly he is a good fielder and a handy bat down the order. But the fundamental problem is that he is just not picking up the wickets at home. Even looking at his stats at home if you take out the series v Pakistan and England where there were some usually pro pace pitches due to the cold weather he has picked up 2 wickets in his last 7 ODI games at home. His economy is acceptable. He has a very limited window to pick up wickets in ODIs in India on our typical surfaces. About say 2-3 overs. After which he looks rudderless. So what does he need to do? I think if there is no improvement we need to re-access Bhuvi at home in India. In ODIs and tests. I will play him for tours of SA NZ etc. But maybe India need to go for somebody else at home. Umesh in tests and XXXX in ODIs. In a way what Bhuvi needs is to go back to the domestics and work on his deliveries for outside the new ball zones. Dropping Bhuvi for home series might just be the way forward. For him to improve as a bowler. I notice SA dont really play Philander in the limited overs.

[cowboysfan]

I would not play Bhuvi at home in odis too but the alternate is so bad that its not worth contemplating at all,he can at least keep things down which is valuable in the SC.

[vvvslaxman]

I very much doubt India would adopt a policy of horses for courses. Dropping someone only for home series. Imagine India has 3 or 4 Home series in a row and suddenly you have an overseas tour. On what grounds you can select him again? There is a good chance he might have lost his form. That would prove to be disasterous. Instead you give him sufficient time to do well. It is not he is totally ineffective. He created so many chances in the last Test. Imagine the so called Indian condition specialist flop at home alternatively if he does very well would you drop him for foreign tours as Bhuvi is better?

[G_B_]

I would not play Bhuvi at home in odis too but the alternate is so bad that its not worth contemplating at all' date='he can at least keep things down which is valuable in the SC.[/quote'] Aaron is making good progress. I will wait to see if he gets through a domestic season. But he made a promising start to his ODI career and is only 24 as of now. There is no rush as such. After the remaining two ODIs (one of which looks odds on to be rained of) we are away to SA, away to NZ and then away to England. So realistically its one year from now before this problem will rear its head again. If Aaron does get through a domestic season and has a good IPL season then IMO its worth considering him for Bhuvi at home at the very least.

[G_B_]

I very much doubt India would adopt a policy of horses for courses. Dropping someone only for home series. Imagine India has 3 or 4 Home series in a row and suddenly you have an overseas tour. On what grounds you can select him again? There is a good chance he might have lost his form. That would prove to be disasterous. Instead you give him sufficient time to do well. It is not he is totally ineffective. He created so many chances in the last Test. Imagine the so called Indian condition specialist flop at home alternatively if he does very well would you drop him for foreign tours as Bhuvi is better?

Quite frankly yes. i dont know why we dont do it. Somebody like Suresh Raina is like the polar opposite batsman version of Bhuvi. I am the first one to call for him to be dropped keeping WC 2015 in mind. The fact is when india play at home usually the domestic season is on. He can play in that and work on his game. considering Vinay kumar makes the squad I am guessing Bhuvi is not going to be an issue.

[vvvslaxman]

Quite frankly yes. i dont know why we dont do it. Somebody like Suresh Raina is like the polar opposite batsman version of Bhuvi. I am the first one to call for him to be dropped keeping WC 2015 in mind. The fact is when india play at home usually the domestic season is on. He can play in that and work on his game. considering Vinay kumar makes the squad I am guessing Bhuvi is not going to be an issue.

What if suddenly we get a juicy surface in India and we dont have someone like Bhuvaneswar to use it? Also the atlernatives have very few samples are quiet inexperienced. You cannot drop someone who is still far from worse for someone who may or may not do the job well.

[GrandMasterSaxy]

He does bowl some loose ball which he need to control. Overall he has a good prospect but need to work on being consistent.

[express bowling]

In India the pitches are mostly flat and swing with the new ball is rarely available for any reasonable length of time. So, pacers need to have 1) pace in the air or higher release speed, 2) reverse swing, 3) ability to hit the deck hard and get seam movement and also take advantage of variable bounce. Unless some of these qualities are present, it would be difficult to take wickets consistently in the subcontinent against good international sides. Can BK develop some of these qualities ?

[G_B_]

What if suddenly we get a juicy surface in India and we dont have someone like Bhuvaneswar to use it? Also the atlernatives have very few samples are quiet inexperienced. You cannot drop someone who is still far from worse for someone who may or may not do the job well.

You can never cover for everything. You have to play the odds and take a chance. Realistically pitches in India are either on the flattish side or slow and low. Those are 90% of Indian pitches. Surely you want Bhuvi to go away and work on picking wickets without the new ball in the domestics? I am not saying we shut the door on him playing in India permanently. He is a young guy and can very well evolve into a good bowler at home. But if he going to play non stop cricket with India in all formats. what chance does he have to sit back and analyse his game and improve as a bowler. Going back to the domestics is certainly not a demotion.

[vvvslaxman]

It is never going to happen. It should not happen. period. He is considered to be a frontline bowler. let us treat him like one. It iwill dent the confidence of Bhuvan and put pressure on whoever replaces him. If he fails as well you could go to someone else. At the end we will look like jokers. Shami's form we never know how long is going to last. He could not reverse in the last match like in the first match. That would be catastrophic to chuck out a decent and steady young fast bowler without even giving a proper run. We just ignore all the positives in the last test because he didn't have enough in the wicket column.

[G_B_]

It is never going to happen. It should not happen. period. He is considered to be a frontline bowler. let us treat him like one. It iwill dent the confidence of Bhuvan and put pressure on whoever replaces him. If he fails as well you could go to someone else. At the end we will look like jokers. Shami's form we never know how long is going to last. He could not reverse in the last match like in the first match. That would be catastrophic to chuck out a decent and steady young fast bowler without even giving a proper run. We just ignore all the positives in the last test because he didn't have enough in the wicket column.

and not picking any wickets is somehow good for him? Dont you think he will probably feel much better once he gets a 5er in the domestics? He knows he will be back for the away tours. Its a bit like medicine. Nobody likes the taste(in most cases) but its needed for the general long term good. Rather go back improve yourself and become a good bowler. I would love to be proven wrong. If Bhuvi can say get plenty of wickets outside the new ball bowling zone in India i would love to eat humble pie. In test matches especially we have a good replacement IMO in Umesh. As India plays only 2 seamers at home IMO I dont think Bhuvi will be missed at home in India where having a bit extra pace makes the difference.

[express bowling]

What if suddenly we get a juicy surface in India and we dont have someone like Bhuvaneswar to use it? Also the atlernatives have very few samples are quiet inexperienced. You cannot drop someone who is still far from worse for someone who may or may not do the job well.

I would play Bhuvi in Indian ODIs because he is economical and, apart from Shami, we are not sure of any better option yet. I will not play him in Indian tests unless the conditions are favourable. Here, we have a better combo in Shami and Umesh. If a juicy pitch is available, what is the harm in including him then ?

[G_B_]

Bhuvi to be fair has stats which make him economical in India and on the whole because he rarely bowls much in the death overs. Look at today v WI, today he bowled 5 overs the last of which happened in the 11th over of the innings. So Bhuvi's economy stats are heavily buffered by how Dhoni uses him. A very low % of his total overs bowled to date have been in the firing line. I dont think Bhuvi even finished his quota of 10 in ODIs this home season. In the champions trophy i remember Dhoni bowling him out in the first 25 overs.

[GrandMasterSaxy]

True, his economy is in control as he does not bowl in the death overs. He did bowl in the powerplay and Charles murdered him with 3 consecutive boundaries.

Bhuvi to be fair has stats which make him economical in India and on the whole because he rarely bowls much in the death overs. Look at today v WI, today he bowled 5 overs the last of which happened in the 11th over of the innings. So Bhuvi's economy stats are heavily buffered by how Dhoni uses him. A very low % of his total overs bowled to date have been in the firing line. i dont think Bhuvi even finished his quota of 10 in ODIs this home season

[G_B_]

^ Dhoni might as well try him at the death on a regular basis. While his economy will shoot up , it might actually get him some wickets from people slogging and being out. I think this was an issue for Bhuvi at pune as well. started the spell well before conceding a lot towards the end (but he picke d up wickets at the end as well)

[express bowling]

If we get a fit and in form Aaron or Mohit / Dhawal turn out to be better, we can always play them in Indian ODIs. I don't think that a pacer who lacks pace as well as the ability to hit the deck hard can take wickets consistently in the subcontinent in international matches.

[GrandMasterSaxy]

I don't think Dhoni would try him in final overs, I mean why ? When he has a better options in Shami and others.

^ Dhoni might as well try him at the death on a regular basis. While his economy will shoot up , it might actually get him some wickets from people slogging and being out. I think this was an issue for Bhuvi at pune as well. started the spell well before conceding a lot towards the end (but he picke d up wickets at the end as well)

[express bowling]

It is not always feasible to bowl spinners at the death. We need another good pacer for this purpose, apart from Shami.

[GrandMasterSaxy]

We do have some good spinners who can bowl decently in the end overs. In pace department, at the moment only Shami, Bhuvi would turn out to be Ishant in disguise in the death overs.

It is not always feasible to bowl spinners at the death. We need another good pacer for this purpose' date=' apart from Shami.[/quote']

[express bowling]

To be fair, bowling pace and taking wickets consistently in the subcontinent is really tough. Combination of pace and movement whether seam or reverse swing is required. The Windies fast bowlers in tests showed that pace without movement is not good enough. BK etc. is showing that just movement with new ball is not enough. You need Srinath, Wasim, Waqar and ,dare I say, Shami kind of bowlers who can combine pace with movement. For just quicks without special moving ability or slower swing bowlers to succeed, we need helpful conditions. The best bet for BK would be to develop reverse swing, which is not easy at his pace, and learning to hit the deck hard with some deliveries atleast -- if he wants to be a wicket taking pacer in the subcontinent.