Indian deputy consul general arrested in US on visa fraud charges

[Muloghonto]

Muloghonto, you seem slightly confused, old chap. A diplomat can get away with murder under diplomatic immunity. DV was not a diplomat, she was a just a glorified paper pusher working under an exaggerated title. She is accused of visa fraud, exploitation and/or human trafficking in the US. For someone who is nothing more than a bloody paper pusher who enjoys very little consular immunity, let alone any diplomatic immunity, how do you want the US authorities to treat her? If I understand your point of view correctly, you want the US to apologise and let her go scott free.

She is an Indian national, employed by the Indian high comission, in the states to serve in this capacity exclusively. She is a diplomat, period. Incase you forgot, the diplomat tag is not reserved only for the Ambassador. The assitant consular general is most certainly a diplomat. Furthermore, i dont care what she is accused of in the US. She could be accused of attempted murder of Obama for all i care. If you want to understand my position, all you have to do is ask, not assume. What the US is supposed to do here, is what the US expects from everyone else: they are supposed to personally apologize to her, to the government of India, then revoke her visa and extradite her to India. It is India's responsibility to try her and the US is overstepping its bounds, period. It used diplomatic immunity as an excuse to get a contract ex military personnel scot free from Pakistan, who was charged with murder. If he can get diplomatic immunity, so can our Devyani. India should not stand for her being tried in the US under any circumstance, period.

[EnterTheVoid]

The people alleging racism and conspiracy theories should also read this part in the article very carefully. But, the best suggestion on the thread has been to forge contract between Devyani and Sangeeta to show Sangeeta on MEA payroll. It is apparently "quite easy" and very acceptable for us. We're the one to point fingers at US!

Well, as soon as the US put their foot down and said they weren't going to apologise nor were they going to drop the charges against DV, all whingers who were making frivolous demands have realised that it is better to shut up and let the law of the land take its course. Other than make a lot of noise, India really hasn't done much. Maybe they know it is a losing battle.

[Muloghonto]

The people alleging racism and conspiracy theories should also read this part in the article very carefully. But, the best suggestion on the thread has been to forge contract between Devyani and Sangeeta to show Sangeeta on MEA payroll. It is apparently "quite easy" and very acceptable for us. We're the one to point fingers at US!

I support that viewpoint too. Whats good for the goose, is good for the gander. If the US can cite diplomatic immunity for a hired gun who stood accused of murder, it can bloody well accept diplomatic immunity for a 'glorified paper pusher' who is actually a part of consular staff. I dont care what hook or crook it takes to get Devyani out of US prosecutor's hands but it must be done. For she is ours to try, not the US's and Uncle Sam needs to know that what goes around, comes around.

[Crookbond]

She is an Indian national, employed by the Indian high comission, in the states to serve in this capacity exclusively. She is a diplomat, period. Incase you forgot, the diplomat tag is not reserved only for the Ambassador. The assitant consular general is most certainly a diplomat. Furthermore, i dont care what she is accused of in the US. She could be accused of attempted murder of Obama for all i care. If you want to understand my position, all you have to do is ask, not assume. What the US is supposed to do here, is what the US expects from everyone else: they are supposed to personally apologize to her, to the government of India, then revoke her visa and extradite her to India. It is India's responsibility to try her and the US is overstepping its bounds, period. It used diplomatic immunity as an excuse to get a contract ex military personnel scot free from Pakistan, who was charged with murder. If he can get diplomatic immunity, so can our Devyani. India should not stand for her being tried in the US under any circumstance, period.

Wrong - Raymond Davis was convicted in Pakistan court. He was only left free after he paid blood money. RD as a CIA contractor IIRC.

[Crookbond]

I support that viewpoint too. Whats good for the goose, is good for the gander. If the US can cite diplomatic immunity for a hired gun who stood accused of murder, it can bloody well accept diplomatic immunity for a 'glorified paper pusher' who is actually a part of consular staff. I dont care what hook or crook it takes to get Devyani out of US prosecutor's hands but it must be done. For she is ours to try, not the US's and Uncle Sam needs to know that what goes around, comes around.

VCCR says no consular immunity for a "grave crime". Visa fraud + human trafficking is a grave crime by VCCR, 1963 itself.

[EnterTheVoid]

She is an Indian national, employed by the Indian high comission, in the states to serve in this capacity exclusively. She is a diplomat, period. Incase you forgot, the diplomat tag is not reserved only for the Ambassador. The assitant consular general is most certainly a diplomat. Furthermore, i dont care what she is accused of in the US. She could be accused of attempted murder of Obama for all i care. If you want to understand my position, all you have to do is ask, not assume. What the US is supposed to do here, is what the US expects from everyone else: they are supposed to personally apologize to her, to the government of India, then revoke her visa and extradite her to India. It is India's responsibility to try her and the US is overstepping its bounds, period. It used diplomatic immunity as an excuse to get a contract ex military personnel scot free from Pakistan, who was charged with murder. If he can get diplomatic immunity, so can our Devyani. India should not stand for her being tried in the US under any circumstance, period.

The US have made it perfectly clear they don't give two hoots what India thinks. She broke US federal laws and she is treated in the same way any other criminal who have broken such laws has been treated. Simple logic, really. This is a law enforcement issue and I support the US exercising the full extent of the law.

[Crookbond]

Well, as soon as the US put their foot down and said they weren't going to apologise nor were they going to drop the charges against DV, all whingers who were making frivolous demands have realised that it is better to shut up and let the law of the land take its course. Other than make a lot of noise, India really hasn't done much. Maybe they know it is a losing battle.

They are NOT going to apologize - I can bet on that. The max. they will do is let it play till the first hearing starts (or even continue till the hearing ends) and then let her go scott free. If India pisses US off though, expect her to be lodged in prison for few days. Already Khurshid is being very diplomatic in his media statements.

[Crookbond]

Also, if people noticed my earlier link of Devyani's immovable properties on the MEA website - in addition to Point 10 please check Point 9. A plot measuring 3.97 Acres for Rs.500,000/- Probably my Kerala friends can add more here but the price looks quite low. http://mea.gov.in/Portal/IRPDocuments/626_2012_Immovable_Property_.pdf

[EnterTheVoid]

They are NOT going to apologize - I can bet on that. The max. they will do is let it play till the first hearing starts (or even continue till the hearing ends) and then let her go scott free. If India pisses US off though' date=' expect her to be lodged in prison for few days. Already Khurshid is being very diplomatic in his media statements.[/quote'] In any case, this is not the first case a nanny has accused Indian diplomats of treating her badly before. Its happened on numerous occasions before if I am not mistaken. Still, these stupid jokers haven't learnt their lesson. Prosecuting her would send a strong message to anyone else that try to circumvent the law in the future.

[Muloghonto]

The US have made it perfectly clear they don't give two hoots what India thinks.

Then they too must be made to pay at a future date.

She broke US federal laws and she is treated in the same way any other criminal who have broken such laws has been treated. Simple logic, really.

She is not subject to said laws. If the US can effectively argue that a hired gun charged with murder is a diplomatic staff of theirs to evade jurisdiction, then they too must concede their lack of jurisdiction here or accept of blatant double standards. simple, really.

This is a law enforcement issue and I support the US exercising the full extent of the law.

I dont support the US exercising their laws on a plaintiff they have no jurisdiction over.

[Crookbond]

In any case, this is not the first case a nanny has accused Indian diplomats of treating her badly before. Its happened on numerous occasions before if I am not mistaken. Still, these stupid jokers haven't learnt their lesson. Prosecuting her would send a strong message to anyone else that try to circumvent the law in the future.

To be fair to the Indian side, they do have a point. Devyani herself is not like any other job seeker on the market and her income is quite low. However, given that fact - the correct procedure for her was to seek a prior MEA approval and ask to get a long term solution to benefit her ilk. Rather than doing that, she did what most people in India do - Apna kaam chalta, toh bhaad mein jaaye junta She lied on the visa application, negotiated a 2nd contract without notifying the US state dept and deleted an important line in the contract. We're used to circumventing the rules and after doing so we boast in glory as if we've invented a Nobel prize winning procedure. This is a message to everyone who do such chicanery, be careful - the world is round.

[Crookbond]

She is not subject to said laws. If the US can effectively argue that a hired gun charged with murder is a diplomatic staff of theirs to evade jurisdiction, then they too must concede their lack of jurisdiction here or accept of blatant double standards. simple, really. .

This is the part where you are right - US is definitely having a double standards on the issue. But we have to note that despite the double speak, the US let the law of the land run its course.

[hhunaeh]

For the life of me I can't figure out why India is associating so much nationalistic pride behind this Devyan. The tamasha has barely begun and she's already been shown to be a lying politician: http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/devyani-khobragade-among-illegal-beneficiaries-says-adarsh-probe-panel-report-461230 A millionaire, who posted a $250,000 bail within hours of getting arrested, but couldn't pay her maid minimum wage? What the f***. If you think punishing her for her crimes puts Indian's "image at line", you're only speaking for yourself. I'm upset at GOI is dancing at her toetips. GOI should be getting the US to release her so she can be tried for frauds committed in India. There is an issue of USA ignoring Vienna conventions though, but this isn't news. USA, UK and Israel have never given UN conventions much thought. They violate international laws every Sunday which the rest of us follow. The world on the other hand is looking at India which is defending and promoting a corrupted official.

i don't really care about devyani the individual and what she did in india. What she did in india, she is responsible for it on an individual basis. She should be prosecuted for it when she comes back to india, but as of now she is a representative of india in a foreign nation. It is that position that she holds that is being humiliated by usa because they are such big sticklers for the law when it comes to indian diplomats and diplomats from other insignificant countries. Just wait till another american citizen, it doesn't even have to be a diplomat breaks the law in india and then you will see how america hurts for him or her and how publications like nytimes changes tune.

[EnterTheVoid]

Muloghonto mate, India is a bit of a joke at the UN, nobody in the states are intimidated by India's supposed threats. They have become somewhat of a use and throw away ally like Pakistan. By the way, those roadblocks outside the US embassy the police have removed, lol, those are just embellishments to keep the traffic away. They have nothing to do with security

[Muloghonto]

Muloghonto Mate' date=' India is a bit of a joke at the UN, nobody in the states is intimidated by India's supposed threats. They have become somewhat of a use and throw away ally like Pakistan. [/quote'] All the more reason for India to change that and perhaps a massive outrage by the Indian populace will let our government do something more serious. Gee, thanks for stating the obvious, Sherlock. But i wouldn't be too surprised if a US diplomat in the near future gets packed into Tihar jail for a day or two. There has to be repercussions to this for the US to cross jurisdiction.

[Crookbond]

i don't really care about devyani the individual and what she did in india. What she did in india' date=' she is responsible for it on an individual basis. She should be prosecuted for it when she comes back to india, but as of now she is a representative of india in a foreign nation. It is that position that she holds that is being humiliated by usa because they are such big sticklers for the law when it comes to indian diplomats and diplomats from other insignificant countries. Just wait till another american citizen, it doesn't even have to be a diplomat breaks the law in india and then you will see how america hurts for him or her and how publications like nytimes changes tune.[/quote'] The difference though is that US cares about ALL its citizens in the US as well despite their social status. I can't imagine India persuading US at this extent if the person in question wasn't a diplomat. US will 9/10 times pursue it even it's not a diplomat and not just from India from almost anyone in the world. Read about a certain 18-year old Michael Fay from US who was accused of car vandalism in Singapore in 1994. According to Singapore's law, Fay was to be caned but the US strongly objected it considering it to be a human rights violation. Two dozen US senators wrote a letter to Singapore appealing for clemency. Even Clinton got involved in it. Singapore didn't budge but US managed to reduce the caning counts from 6 to 4. It almost created a diplomatic problem between the two countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay India does zilch to the dozens of Indian expats in the middle east who are treated like sh!t.

[Crookbond]

Media posturing much! India to buy 6 more C-130J Hercules aircraft from U.S. despite diplomatic row http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2013-12/21/c_125893882.htm

[randomGuy]

We have a blackmailing, exploitative maid in case asking for $10k and arrangement for green card. Devyani agrees for $10k and a flight back home(to India), refuses to help arrange Green card. The FIR has many more revealing details. Delhi high court, Ministry of foreign affairs - Basically the state of India asks its strategic partner(USA) multiple times, to not file a case for the maid as she is an absconder and a possible fraud and a blackmailer. What India gets, is an email from the Consular General (representative of Indian state) telling about the humiliating treatment -

“I must admit that I broke down many times as the indignities of repeated handcuffing, stripping and cavity searches, swabbing, in a hold-up with common criminals and drug addicts were all being imposed upon me despite my incessant assertions of immunity,”

Is an apology too much to ask for?

[someone]

There really is absolute no question that there has been mistakeS done by us. Now this "us" implies either GOI or Khobragade or both. Now will the GOI stand up and admit that? As till today, there is been no denial that the maid was underpaid. The wave of sympathy is with the maid and India will not win this case by simply pointing out that it is a standard practice and accusing USA of hypocrisy. Both might be true but lawfully it has zero meaning.

[someone]

Its a reality check for MMS govt. and that India needed to stick to its stand of 55 years of not being too close to US.When India was not a so called close ally of US no such incidence happened.As soon as India started having closer ties and started giving US VIP treatment this has started.We need to stay away from US. And no India doesnt lack friends world wide but this is not an issue of any worldwide significance.Many resolutions againist India in UN sponsored by US have been defeated or blocked.So India has its allies,but this is not an issue big enough for such steps.India made a mistake by making close ties with US,old Indian allies like Russia/Iran warned India.

India does not have any strong presence worldwide, you can even check the BRICS group, we are basically the outsider. And if history is anything to go by, Israel, Russia, France are more likely to be our true allies. Although, this topic is a different from the OP, but something which we must acknowledge.