The Gavaskar lesson

[vamos_rafa]

This is where sachin was better he could take on bowling of high quality but I think it was easier for him compared to dravid who literally opened And also keep in mind his form during last tour of south Africa he was really up and down and still hung around and did some of his job Right now India would love to have some one who at least plays through new ball cos it can be another 50 all out scenario :cantstop:

It's for the bolded part for which I brought up Sachin's example. For all the 4 100's that I talked about, he came in when the ball was very new. Also, the scoreboard pressure of loosing 2 wickets for not even 30 runs is also there. and in some of the innings, the scores were of the order of 58-5 or 68-4. Sachin's worst trip to Africa was in 2006 where he scored around 200 runs. In that tour the pitches were a lot spicier and he was at his low coz of tennis elbow. But, still he managed 3 good innings. He was the chief architect of the loss in the 3rd test is another matter though :winky:

[vamos_rafa]

There is a huge difference being a Ponting and being a Pujara. SA conditions are not really alien for Ponting but for Pujara are. Even 47 is far lower than his actual average. Same for SRT 46. SA is very much home condition for Ponting. They are born and brought up playing pace and bounce. So not a big challenge for them. For Ponting' date=' challenge was in India where he failed.[/quote'] Sir, good quality fast bowling along with spicy pitches is a challenge for anyone. Also, when you are talking about SA, any average close to 45 is very good. I remember Allan Border's average of 38 in SA was considered good because of the conditions there. And as I keep reiterating, it's not only pace and bounce but the combination of pace and bounce and lateral movement along with the presence of a potent bowling attack which makes SA such a difficult place to score runs.

[Number]

It's for the bolded part for which I brought up Sachin's example. For all the 4 100's that I talked about, he came in when the ball was very new. Also, the scoreboard pressure of loosing 2 wickets for not even 30 runs is also there. and in some of the innings, the scores were of the order of 58-5 or 68-4. Sachin's worst trip to Africa was in 2006 where he scored around 200 runs. In that tour the pitches were a lot spicier and he was at his low coz of tennis elbow. But, still he managed 3 good innings. He was the chief architect of the loss in the 3rd test is another matter though :winky:

I think in Cape Town 2011 innings he saw off the 2nd new ball too, which got our other 3 batsmen. Right ?

[vamos_rafa]

Even with those 5 100s' date=' he has failed in more innings than succeeded in SA.[/quote'] How do you define succeeding in an inning?

[rkt.india]

Sir, good quality fast bowling along with spicy pitches is a challenge for anyone. Also, when you are talking about SA, any average close to 45 is very good. I remember Allan Border's average of 38 in SA was considered good because of the conditions there. And as I keep reiterating, it's not only pace and bounce but the combination of pace and bounce and lateral movement along with the presence of a potent bowling attack which makes SA such a difficult place to score runs.

Dravid too averages 38-39 there. Then why people say, he was a failure there. Agree about the bold part.

[vamos_rafa]

I think in Cape Town 2011 innings he saw off the 2nd new ball too, which got our other 3 batsmen. Right ?

If it's a question then yes. If it's a sarcastic remark for my post then I don't know what to say :--D

[rkt.india]

How do you define succeeding in an inning?

How many innings he scored less than his actual average in the country? 18 innings of less than 46 his actual average in SA, one of them is marginal at 44, not outs excluded, 15 innings of less than 30, 8 innings more than 46; 5 of them were 100s.

[vamos_rafa]

Dravid too averages 38-39 there. Then why people say, he was a failure there. Agree about the bold part.

If I am not mistaken, he average 29 something in SA. Hence, is called a failure.

[vamos_rafa]

How many innings he scored less than his actual average in the country?

Why do you think that's failing? Do you think he failed in the 1st inning of the Jo'burg test in 2006? the ball was seaming swinging around and yet he scored a classy 44. As much as people praise Ganguly's gritty 50, his assault in the 1 hour after lunch was one of the major reasons of we doing well in that test. Also, breaking it down further, 2 or 3 of his sub-30 knocks have come on the final day, when we were looking to draw the match. You just can't statistically define success or failure. Should look at the context.

[Number]

Dravid too averages 38-39 there. Then why people say, he was a failure there. Agree about the bold part.

29.

[Number]

It's for the bolded part for which I brought up Sachin's example. For all the 4 100's that I talked about, he came in when the ball was very new. Also, the scoreboard pressure of loosing 2 wickets for not even 30 runs is also there. and in some of the innings, the scores were of the order of 58-5 or 68-4. Sachin's worst trip to Africa was in 2006 where he scored around 200 runs. In that tour the pitches were a lot spicier and he was at his low coz of tennis elbow. But, still he managed 3 good innings. He was the chief architect of the loss in the 3rd test is another matter though :winky:

2006 failure was mainly due to poor form, imo. With that much experience he would have done well against those bowlers.

[rkt.india]

29.

Right, just checked.

[vamos_rafa]

2006 failure was mainly due to poor form' date=' imo. With that much experience he would have done well against those bowlers.[/quote'] Agreed. And inspite of the poor form, he did decent. Also, that series was not a very high scoring one so 50's and 60's were good scores. 2 60's and a 40 odd are decent returns. It's secondary that we are talking about SRT here, for whom anything but a 100 is a failure.

[Old guy]

There is no comparison between sachin and dravud sachin easily was better player but right now we are discussing about current players who are no where near that level Anyway point rkt made was that very good batsmen can fail at top order and its easier down the order which I agree but solution is not to change positions as replacement won't even survive long enough to make difference anyway

[vamos_rafa]

There is no comparison between sachin and dravud sachin easily was better player but right now we are discussing about current players who are no where near that level Anyway point rkt made was that very good batsmen can fail at top order and its easier down the order which I agree but solution is not to change positions as replacement won't even survive long enough to make difference anyway

I don't think we are comparing. Both are legends in their own rights. I think batsmen can fail/ succeed at any position given the technique/temperament they have.

[CG]

Dravid had his success in sa where he nearly won a test match at job erg in 1997 but due to rain and bad light india fell short and saved a test in 2001 tour also he had to tour sa when he was out of form twice more failures so the average is low.

[Old guy]

I don't think we are comparing. Both are legends in their own rights. I think batsmen can fail/ succeed at any position given the technique/temperament they have.

They can but probability of doing well at 3 with bad openers is much lower than lower order against older ball