Mukesh Ambani surpasses Gates.. Becomes the richest

[Holysmoke]

I dont! I never said he doesnt do it! Someone asked me what i thought he should do and i said so. If he already does so, well good on the man! My fight is not with Ambani or other super-rich who earnt their money, mostly through 'straight' means. My fight is with the system that CREATES Ambanis and TATAs in a land of 100s of millions of super-poor.

Point taken.

[Bongosamaj]

Point taken.

Cheers, divine emissions. :D

[Gaurav]

Ok I am off to bed. Love you Bongo man even though I don't agree with everything you say :wink_smile:

[Bongosamaj]

Ok I am off to bed. Love you Bongo man even though I don't agree with everything you say :wink_smile:

Er. ok. Normally i wouldnt care at the 'love you' comment but this one is comming from the resident horn-dawg of ICF- gai. So...umm...i'll watch my back ? :haha::hysterical:

[Lurker]

I dont! I never said he doesnt do it! Someone asked me what i thought he should do and i said so. If he already does so, well good on the man! My fight is not with Ambani or other super-rich who earnt their money, mostly through 'straight' means. My fight is with the system that CREATES Ambanis and TATAs in a land of 100s of millions of super-poor.

TATAs are wrong example Bongo :sad_smile: When was the last time you heard a TATA amongst top 10 India's richest? Even during the days of JRD it was always the Hindujas and Singhanias, Birlas and Bajajs who were rich and not TATA. Today you wont find Ratan Tata, who is easily one of India's best known industrialist, in top 10, perhaps even in top 25. TATA is one of the rare Indian companies that have invested heavily in its people. Their philanthropy is legendary, right from opening quality hospitals in Jamshedpur, Poona to opening quality institutes like TIFR. Wasnt Trombay Atomic plant also related to TATA? Not to mention Air India and many such institutions. Criticism for Ambanis is fine but TATAs is a no-no. :argh:

[Bongosamaj]

Point taken, Lurks. I was just throwing out a few 'super-rich' desi names to make a point. And you are right, i should know better than to put TATAs in that group...though i think you are seriously underestimating the wealth of the TATAs if you think they won't be in the top 10-15 richest people/families/conglomerates in India. As far as 'last time' goes, i lived in India between 94 & 97- those were the days before the tech bubble and only 5 names ever got thrown around for the 'richest/most powerful' corporate entities in India : The Birlas, The Tatas and The Ambanis, all in a league of their own, followed by Bajaj & Godrej.

[Lurker]

Point taken, Lurks. I was just throwing out a few 'super-rich' desi names to make a point. And you are right, i should know better than to put TATAs in that group...though i think you are seriously underestimating the wealth of the TATAs if you think they won't be in the top 10-15 richest people/families/conglomerates in India.

I know where you are coming from regarding rich Indians but TATAs would be a different lot really. Look at it this way. WIPRO(which is 75% owned by Azim Premji) made him the richest Indian at one time. Now TCS which is a bigger company than WIPRO went public a few years back and its market valuation was more than WIPRO. So ideally Ratan Tata should have been the richest India. Guess what, Ratan Tata does not even feature in top 40 richest Indian list as per Forbes. xx

[Lurker]

^^ In fact if I may add here, for those who ask "What can Ambani do", my suggestion would be "Be like TATA". TATAs are a company that make you proud as an Indian. Right from the Air India days they have worked for India. It has given us world class companies like TISCO, TELCO, TCS etc and rarely has been caught during anything illegal(read bribe), something that was always alleged for Dhirubhai Ambani. And they have spent a lot for their workers and their family. I wouldnt be surprised if the benefits in TATA company is the best in India still today. xxx

[sgusa]

Just to annoy Bongo .. Did any of you buggers make money off of Reliance shares ? :D and to make him happy, we all know what sort of system bending and greasing both dhirubhai and Mukesh have done to get to this position :)

[coffee_rules]

I have invested in some MFs which collectively gave me around 45% this year in the boom. They invest heavily in industry infrastructure stocks.

[guju24]

i just read today he is not world richest it was counting mistake....indian reporters are always like this...first they say something and then they are like oh its some mistake...

[fineleg]

Just to annoy Bongo .. Did any of you buggers make money off of Reliance shares ? :D and to make him happy, we all know what sort of system bending and greasing both dhirubhai and Mukesh have done to get to this position :)

Making money via Reliance shares brought you back from the dead. Welcome to the living world :D

[Bumper]

I dont see anything wrong with Ambani's growing networth. Its hardly related to India's poverty, which was pretty much the same even before Ambani became a billionaire. If anything, Ambani getting rich is only helping our country: 1) Higher his stock, better the returns on retirement accounts 2) More employment for the middle class 3) More taxes for the nation from Ambani & his employees 4) More products => more competition in the market => benefits consumers. 5) Overall contribution to the GDP & the economic growth All this without him contributing a single dollar towards charity. Dont confuse an industrialist growing richer with a politican doing the same.

[Bongosamaj]

If anything, Ambani getting rich is only helping our country: 1) Higher his stock, better the returns on retirement accounts 2) More employment for the middle class 3) More taxes for the nation from Ambani & his employees 4) More products => more competition in the market => benefits consumers. 5) Overall contribution to the GDP & the economic growth All this without him contributing a single dollar towards charity. Dont confuse an industrialist growing richer with a politican doing the same.

Look, all this ignores ONE salient aspect about society that is CATEGORICALLY EVIDENT in world history numerous times : you CANNOT let your top 1-5% get super-rich and the rest not very rich. Wealth increase must be more or less proportionate through the society or else you WILL have civil unrest. You cannot be creating the Ambanis by the dozens and still have nearly half a billion living on just over 2 dollars a day. Otherwise, the population gets pi$$ed off and you have revolution on your hands. The French Revolution, the October Revolution, the Spanish civil war are all vivid examples of the FACT that if you create too many 'billionaires' while still having a significant % of population impoverished, you create social unrest & social tension, as the vast majority feels 'left behind' and/or scammed by the upper crust of the society. And this is already evident in India's case too- look at the Maoist insurgency that is the biggest threat to India's immediate future. It started intensifying from the mid 90s onwards and today there are so many 'maoist corridors' in our nation. And almost ALL maoist recruits are from dirt-poor rural areas and almost all are young teenagers/20s folks. It is no coincidence that India started poppping out billionaires every other month/stock market started booming & Maoist insurgency also gained pace. As they say, those who refuse to learn from history are bound to repeat it. India right now is walking directly into repeating the French Revolution/October revolution if it keeps experiencing the stock bubble/billionaire bubble while hundreds of millions continue to live with less than 3-4 dollars a day. This salient factor completely overrides the points you've brought forward, because the points you bring forward does not see society from a grand enough scale- the considerations/motivations/nature of the common man is ignored utterly in the points you raise. And history is as categoric, clear-cut as you are going to get on this. Furthermore, it is sometimes exasperating to see most Indians so clueless about this factor ( a fact, i suspect, comes from most Indians being mostly clueless about any decent chronological world history and particularly, European history, since in the topic of economic, capitalism is very much THEIR conception & their history is VERY RELEVANT to India's future in an economic sense). Consider the perspective, for example, of the average Nagaland-er(sorry, dunno proper term for it) or a Manipuri or a Chattisgarhi. The economic 'development' in their lands is NOWHERE as fast-paced or evident to the visible eye as in the bigger 'heartlands' of India or in the mega-cities. Guess what their perspective is when Delhi hands out SEZs and improves infrastructure in the 'bigger' states while throwing only trinkets towards these 'boonie areas'. Even for the mostly 'loyal' ones would start having some form of resentment developing at some point if this disparity keeps up. This might easily lead to further gaining of support of a social revolution and we all know what the 'revolution of choice' is of the poor classes when they feel disenchanted by the rich- COMMUNISM. Indians just refuse to believe how close India is at the precipice of a communist takeover(ie, matter of perhaps few decades). And those that do are silly under-educated morons who continuously focus on the external avenues ( blame China/blame Islam, blame this, blame that) and keep living in the utterly idiotic bubble known as 'we can do no wrong in our attitude/cultural oversights dont exist for us, since we are the bestest culture in the world'. And sadly, the internal causes gets utterly ignored. History proves that the overwhelming majority of empires fall largely due to internal issues with the outsider 'taking advantage of the opportunity' presented. Most critically of all, Indians refuse to learn from their own history. Indians utterly overlook the FACT that to a significant extent, 'fall of Indian civilization' to 'muslim barbarian hoardes from the north & west' are their own making. Indians refuse to look at the FACTS in hand- All the way from the foothills of Hindu Kush to the Arabian coast and east all the way through Burma, Sindh was the ONLY muslim kingdom ( and a little one at that) for 100s of years- from essentially 700/750 AD to 1000 AD. But what were we Indians doing in this period, the immediate prelude to the Massive & catastrophic 100s of years long waves of islamic invaders (starting essentially from Mahmud of Ghazni) ? We were busy beating the cr@p outta each other, bloodying each other to a pulp. This is the period when atleast 4 major 'empires' continuously fought each other to a standstill - the Palas, the Cholas, the Rastrakutas & the Gujara-pratiharas were busy beating the snot outta each other vying for power. Sure, our 'great civilization 's kingdoms' didnt go around wantonly destroying cities & genocidal sprees against each other in this period but the massive number of battles fought by these 4 against each other consumed mindboggling amounts of resources & people ( all these guys had massive armies). And just like how we arrogantly/foolishly ignore OUR contributions to our own demise in the past( this entire school of very relevant thought is utterly dismissed as 'self loathing/self-hatred/self-blahdeblah' by our arrogant superiorist retards, we continue to utterly ignore all the telltale signs of potential dangers India faces in its immediate future. This is the kind of thing that will rip India apart in the comming years if attention is not paid. Uneven growth amongst all walks of life- the social classes, the states, the regions, etc. CANNOT lead to a good future for India. Secessionism will definitely rear its ugly head again but unfortunately, if the conditions for secession are completely justifiable ( which it is leading up to), it WILL happen. If I had figured this out back then, i might've been inclined to understand skepticism to this idea in the early 90s when economic reform seemed like utter manna from the heavens.But right now, the parallels are unmistakable & categoric, especially with the simultaneous rise in maoist terrorism, wealth distribution disparity & economic boom that is very unevenly distributed not just amongst classes but also amongst states. These are the exact same conditions that sparked the October Revolution in Russia, the French Revolution, etc. : A very rapid increase of the wealth of the upper crust + general masses remaining stagnant or a rapid decline of wealth of the masses + little/no effect on the riches of the upper crust. (Basically, the same scenario- rapid & huge gap between the few & many in terms of wealth, thus having the whole 'mega-rich 1-5%, poor rest' phenomena.) Lastly, this type of utter ignorance of these issues & dangers is near-criminal in my mind since this ultimately will lead to a very very bad and crushing 'end' to our 'happy near-orgasmic dreams of the future'. I am sure the average desi in the whole 750-1000 AD time also felt very 'cushy' about their ' pal/chola/etc.' India vision. But hey, ultimately, our philosophy itself points out the most salient truth we choose to ignore : You reap what you sow. Ultimately, we deserve our fate so far. The day we realize this, is the day we will lay the first foundation block for our 'sat-yuga' type orgasmic dreams of pan-indianism 'world is a very happy place and where it isnt happy, we are invulnerable to them' period of the mahabharata/ramayan stories.

[fineleg]

What is your proposal? Take Ambani's wealth and forcefully "distribute" it. That doesn't sound right. Maybe thats not what ur saying. If so, what else do you propose to do going forward?

[Bongosamaj]

What is your proposal? .... If so, what else do you propose to do going forward?

I have no clear-cut idea on the 'solution'/proposal part to be honest. Maybe, i havn't thought it that far yet. Look, the scientific process/logical process is to first observe the phenomena as neutrally as you can ( check), then see the process at work (check). observe the governing principles(check) and then if you see a problem, you scratch your head trying to figure out a solution. I am not there yet for the solution part. Dunno if i ever will be.Perhaps greater minds than me can figure out a solution to this, but i don't consider it my 'responsibility' or any sort of 'obligation' to provide a solution. Identifying a problem/saying 'daal me kaala hai' does not carry with it an automatic obligation to provide ' this is the solution to your problems' and failure to do so does not automatically carry a 'garbage idea' tag. Perhaps you can come up with a solution ? Ultimately, i am more interested in my individual life (and the life of my near-n-dear ones) more than brotherly love for the common man. To be very honest, i cannot be ar$ed to spend even more time than i do on this topic scratching my head comming up with a solution. I have a job to do, a life to live & many $hit to take care of. I am not the 21st century Neitzche/Plato who can sit on his a$$ all life and think on 'social problems and what it takes to rectify them' stuff. I consider it 'my job is done' when i can get atleast some people to see the problem/issue. Ultimately, to be honest, rise & fall of India has little or no impact in my personal life. I can only devote so much time to $hit that has little or no impact on my own personal life. But judging from their 'nose-pointing-to-sky-Indian-pride', you are better off asking Bossbhai/Sandtest/Dada_Rocks etc. for a solution. Given how much these guys declare their 'love/pride/dedication' to motherland, their 'I-hold-degrees-in-three-fields' qualifications & life experience, these guys should be happy to devote their entire life scratching their heads trying to come up with a solution before its too late. I wish you luck, but ultimately, you are asking the wrong person here.I care about India because its my motherland. But i don't have many personal interests riding on India's fate. I never claimed to be a Buddha, so such level of 'selfless compassion' is not my cup of tea.

Take Ambani's wealth and forcefully "distribute" it. That doesn't sound right. Maybe thats not what ur saying

No, that is NOT what i am saying- nowhere in my ENTIRE POST did i say anything about taking away wealth by force and distribute it- Ambani or any other. All i did was identify the problem. NOT imply any solution of any sort. Not even a HINT of it is there in my post, where i hinted at even the slightest 'what we ought to do/this is the solution'. I identified what i consider to be a huge problem.All i am saying (and willing to debate on) is ' you guys have this huge problem- solve this and India will enter a golden age in the next 50-100 yrs. Ignore this and be prepared to see the social revolution, precisely the same as French Revolution/October Revolution.' With a billion+ minds at your disposal, you surely don't need the brain of this 'desh-drohi-desh-skipper-Indian-turned-Canadian' guy to figure this $hit out. I've said all i have to say on this topic. G'day.

[Gaurav]

In human history there has NEVER been equality :moon:

[fineleg]

Bongo, Fair enough. If you say, you can't be bothered to think up a solution, fair enough. Most here can't be bothered either and will place the quality of their personal life above spending time for this 'common good'. Thats the point. In the same way, personal wealth growing will be the concern of most human beings, and most if not all politicians or industrialists are not going to think about "how to shrink the gap" between the rich and the poor.

[Gaurav]

Bongo, Fair enough. If you say, you can't be bothered to think up a solution, fair enough. Most here can't be bothered either and will place the quality of their personal life above spending time for this 'common good'. Thats the point. In the same way, personal wealth growing will be the concern of most human beings, and most if not all politicians or industrialists are not going to think about "how to shrink the gap" between the rich and the poor.

:two_thumbs_up: For you dear :rose:

[fineleg]

:two_thumbs_up: For you dear :rose:

Cool :playingball: