For Indian Cricket to improve learn from US Baseball

[Muloghonto]

More realistic question (1) Cricket ball at 60 mph (2) Bball at 90 mph Which one would you pick.

It is not realistic at all. That you are giving a cricket ball such a big disadvantage inherently speaks in favor of the cricket ball.

[IndianRenegade]

Once again baseball is coming at you at much faster speed with a eight seam. It will split your hand in two. Injuries with baseball are pretty serious.

Okay no one is saying baseball is not coming quick at you so stop repeating it, ad nauseam. It justifies having protection for the keeper and certain infielders, but the catchers in the outfield also have these gear designed to pocket the ball easier not just protect them. While outfielders in cricket have to do it with bare hands and take really high catches! All I am saying is these guys are not used to catching (not pocketing), a hard ball even at a lesser speed they are sure to ground most of the balls with bare hands. Look at these MLB catches, the ball is not coming at them at 100 MPH, but I can bet they can't catch most of them without their mitts! mM_XYs_bAU4 Also I would like to see some evidence for your claim that it will "split hand in two". Pls remember they used to play baseball without gloves in the past.

Very few cricket balls are caught on drives. The only player who sees the max force of cricket ball is a wicketkeeper and guess what he has, lot of protection. It is the speed which determines it.

Okay what are the roles of these fielders? Short Extra Cover Short mid off Short mid on Short Mid-wicket Slips You guessed it right - catch the batsmen on the drive. How many of them wear a glove? None. Lets assume for a moment these guys don't catch much. They still do catch a few without protection. The reason a wicket keeper has a glove is not just because he handles the full force, he does that ball after ball after ball. The slip cordon which has to handle similar speeds doesn't they don't have to do it every ball hence they have very little protection.

I did not know it was legal to bowl at you in cricket. Is beamer not a no ball? In baseball a dugout fight will erupt if a ball is directed at a batter. It can kill.

If you have played/watched cricket, you knew very well as to what I was talking about: FaKhYJ1xfB4 Yes a beamer/beanball is illegal in cricket. But you can still bowl at a batsman in cricket. Some bowlers use it as a strategy against certain batsmen. So its imperative they have protection. While you can't do this in baseball.

[IndianRenegade]

The point was you have to be better stronger faster player to be a better athlete.

Pls stop Ad Hoc arguments. First you claimed Baseball players as better stronger faster athletes, someone comes up and shows that they are in fact fat, and aren't fit. Then you comeback and claim they can still run a base in 4.2 seconds (even-though they do it for a very small period of time), so it doesn't matter that they look fat/unfit. Someone shows that a cricketer can do that too (for longer periods of time), You go back to claiming they are better stronger faster player athletes! All I can say is this "Lady, I'm not an athlete. I'm a professional baseball player." - go figure!

[shortbread]

Complex seam has more complexity.

LOL.....what a tool!! He makes a fool of himself with some elan!!

I have never seen a cricket ball change direction twice in flight.

Ever heard of reverse swing..........just admit this....'I have never seen a cricket ball....... period'

[shortbread]

......It's hard to for me to convey the toughness of those who play American football.......But to undermine American football by claiming it is some game where "guys huff and puff wearing helmets and pillows"- that just shows you are not knowledgeable enough yet to evaluate the sport.

I compared it to rugby league, and trust me you cant!! I used to play rugby (wasnt good or fit enough), watch rugby live and follow the Sottish team. The physical demands of the sport, the discipline and training is on a way different league. Broken jaw bones, broken ribs, dislocated shoulders, fractured arms, backs..........and its not just build these guys run at some shocking speeds all through the game. With NO SAFETY GEAR!! Midfilder is quite ignorant about sport so when I spoke about rugby fitness I had to make sure he did not get confused with what americans play.....I meant real rugby!! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZHDFliS6vo]Try Savers & Rib Breakers 11 - Huge rugby tackles compilation - YouTube[/ame]

[Midfielder]

Some of you guys who deride American sports clearly have either not been exposed to them, have pre -conceived notions, or have watched a few games without knowing much of what was going on. I used to be exactly the same until I really got into watching some of those sports. You are entitled to your opinion. But these kinds of posts make it difficult to take your other points seriously. It's hard to for me to convey the toughness of those who play American football. I came to understand through personal experiences. A friend of mine who played 'only' at the college level and was built like a tank at five feet nine inches. One training exercise- His coach used to make the offensive and defensive teams run into walls - at speed. And yeah they wore full gear. Some other sessions they would not let you go until you finished or passed out. People would throw up and continue playing. And this is not extraordinary. There's a now famous college training camp in the 1950s - the 'Junction Boys' coaching camp for the Texas A&M team. Look it up sometime. Other sports such as rugby may be 'tougher' for all I know. But to undermine American football by claiming it is some game where "guys huff and puff wearing helmets and pillows"- that just shows you are not knowledgeable enough yet to evaluate the sport.

Some of these guys have no idea how tough these American athletes are. I was naive like them once but once I saw how conditioned they are I am still in awe.

[Midfielder]

That is not realistic as even with unnatural action bowlers bowl at you at 90 mph.

Once a cricket ball hits the ground it loses almost 40% of the initial velocity that is why it barely comes at you around 55.

[Midfielder]

If you seriously think a baseball player can hit 195 meter six? Are you kidding me? Bat that is almost twice the weight, with all the protective gear hitting a heavier and harder ball as long as baseball? No chance.

Talk about hitting the ball with smaller "area"

Longest is 200 meters if they has a cricket bat they can hit everything 200 m. Please look at the arms of baseball playres and compare it with cricket players.

[Midfielder]

I compared it to rugby league, and trust me you cant!! I used to play rugby (wasnt good or fit enough), watch rugby live and follow the Sottish team. The physical demands of the sport, the discipline and training is on a way different league. Broken jaw bones, broken ribs, dislocated shoulders, fractured arms, backs..........and its not just build these guys run at some shocking speeds all through the game. With NO SAFETY GEAR!! Midfilder is quite ignorant about sport so when I spoke about rugby fitness I had to make sure he did not get confused with what americans play.....I meant real rugby!!

Once again you are clueless, someone who has not played any sport. A football hit is much more than a g force a fighter pilot experience in a tight turn. Sometime the head experiences as many as 100 gs. You are truly clueless. Football is the most brutal sport out there.

[Midfielder]

LOL.....what a tool!! He makes a fool of himself with some elan!! Ever heard of reverse swing..........just admit this....'I have never seen a cricket ball....... period'

Once again reverse swing is a lateral deviation. Not the multiple deviation of knuckleball.

[Midfielder]

Pls stop Ad Hoc arguments. First you claimed Baseball players as better stronger faster athletes, someone comes up and shows that they are in fact fat, and aren't fit. Then you comeback and claim they can still run a base in 4.2 seconds (even-though they do it for a very small period of time), so it doesn't matter that they look fat/unfit. Someone shows that a cricketer can do that too (for longer periods of time), You go back to claiming they are better stronger faster player athletes! All I can say is this "Lady, I'm not an athlete. I'm a professional baseball player." - go figure!

You need to read my post properly. I gave you the average speed of first base run. Can you give me for cricket, the answer is no because you are hot air.

[Midfielder]

Okay no one is saying baseball is not coming quick at you so stop repeating it, ad nauseam. It justifies having protection for the keeper and certain infielders, but the catchers in the outfield also have these gear designed to pocket the ball easier not just protect them. While outfielders in cricket have to do it with bare hands and take really high catches! All I am saying is these guys are not used to catching (not pocketing), a hard ball even at a lesser speed they are sure to ground most of the balls with bare hands. Look at these MLB catches, the ball is not coming at them at 100 MPH, but I can bet they can't catch most of them without their mitts! mM_XYs_bAU4 Also I would like to see some evidence for your claim that it will "split hand in two". Pls remember they used to play baseball without gloves in the past. Okay what are the roles of these fielders? Short Extra Cover Short mid off Short mid on Short Mid-wicket Slips You guessed it right - catch the batsmen on the drive. How many of them wear a glove? None. Lets assume for a moment these guys don't catch much. They still do catch a few without protection. The reason a wicket keeper has a glove is not just because he handles the full force, he does that ball after ball after ball. The slip cordon which has to handle similar speeds doesn't they don't have to do it every ball hence they have very little protection. If you have played/watched cricket, you knew very well as to what I was talking about: FaKhYJ1xfB4 Yes a beamer/beanball is illegal in cricket. But you can still bowl at a batsman in cricket. Some bowlers use it as a strategy against certain batsmen. So its imperative they have protection. While you can't do this in baseball.

Very few catches are made on a full drive. Most of the catches at slip are because the ball has slowed down considerable barely 50 mph. Most of the catches at outfield are bunch of lolipos, no big deal. Once again Jadega is one of the athletic one his physical standard would not even come close to an outfiielder. A baseball outfielder will out jump him, out run him out hustle him. Put some numbers down you are clearly clueless. They will take you out if you bowl a beamer. Cricket and baseball are different sports. The baseball is moving much faster than a cricket ball does. For one thing, cricket batsmen aren't even swinging for maximum velocity much of the time. Comparing a ball that's guided with a paddle-like bat to a ball that's smashed with a maximum effort swing with a baseball bat is just not a reasonable comparison. And even when they are swinging to really rip it, if a cricket ball goes 300-plus feet, it's a remarkable drive. When a baseball goes 300 feet, it's a routine flyout. That's because baseballs are hit harder. And that's why catching a cricket ball isn't the same as catching a baseball, and why you couldn't just stick a cricketer in at shortstop, only without a glove, and expect him to do anything but get severely injured. Compound this with the fact that they have to account for multiple bases unlike cricket where there are only two ends. They have to stop each and everything even if the line drive is coming at 120 + mph.

[Midfielder]

Yeah one day I was in Jhumri Telaiya trying out for the Jhumri Telaiya Idols competition. I came across this cricket field and saw a bat and ball. I took the bat, tossed the ball up myself, and hit the ball to all parts of the ground. No one else was there to watch it, but I hit a 4 every time. I don't why cricket needs those phassssth bowlers or spinners or even batsmen. Madam, forget the NBA. Next time try even getting into even a 2 on 2 street basketball game. Then when you have elbows in your face, across your windpipe, and full body contact, it'll be interesting to see how many three pointers you manage.

These guys are clueless. Not a single cricket player I know is fit enough to dunk. They dont know what physical demands on body are playing the top American sports.

[Midfielder]

Each sports has some finer aspects. That doesn't mean we have to like them all. Let us just leave it at that. It is not like some of us didn't try to give a chance. Tried. Didn't enjoy much. NBA is the only one that i followed religiously. Never hooked onto other american sports.

Completely agree. I like cricket because that was a primary sport I play. Once I watched baseball I was in awe at the physical standards these players have. That does not mean I disrepect cricket. Once again the point I was trying to make is that based on recent debacle the Captaicy role in Indian cricket needs to be reevaluated. The decision making should be taken away from Dhoni and handed to managers. That is all I am trying to say but seems like lot of people have been offended. A 5ft fin women comes and says that basketball is so easy. Some of these posts are clueless.

[shortbread]

These guys are clueless. Not a single cricket player I know is fit enough to dunk. They dont know what physical demands on body are playing the top American sports.

The demands of playing American sports: Feed on steroids Be overweight and unfit Have a handfull of wannabe american fans....Presto!!!

[Midfielder]

The demands of playing American sports: Feed on steroids Be overweight and unfit Have a handfull of wannabe american fans....Presto!!!

This is truly revealing.

[Midfielder]

Back again. 1) Raina bowling Yes. That was a blunder. That has been a blunder he has been doing almost every match. Using part timers against run of play. Since he is repeating in every match they could very well discuss outside the ground as well about introduction of Raina. So i believe Dhoni is more intent distributing the overs without looking like a fool. He does not go for the kill by taking a gamble. Play safe approach. I am not sure he is going to listen to any advice from coach midway through the match. or the fatso is too scared.. We would never know 2) Yuvraj sacrifice This is where cricketing culture comes into play. Unlike MLB other leagues, it is an international game. You are a national star not some club star. May be in IPL these kind of strategies work. In an international match reputation of batsman counts. It is basic common sense that he had to hit out or get out. Exact words from Hussain. But Yuvraj like a deer caught in the headlights could not do anything. It was quiet perplexing. Unlike League sports like MLB you cannot interrupt games frequently. For this blame solely lies on Yuvraj. May be Kohli could have told him. Yes it was one of those rare situations where they could have sent a message. But they probably thought he would make up in the end which is what Yuvra would have also gambled on. Yes strategically we are not doing things right. There are at times you should deny strike to even teh reputed batsman if that guy was not going well. Darren Sammy did exactly that against Australia. He denied a single. He knew if anyone was going to hit a six that was him. He took it upon himself and smashed Faulkner for sixes.

There is nothing you said over here I would take issue with except Yuvrajs selection. Dhoni should not be allowed to make those decisions. That is what the discussion was supposed to be about but we have a lot of buttt hurt people walking around.

[shortbread]

This is truly revealing.

Well at least now u understand. Next time you start a campaign about how 'baseball players are the epitome of fitness', add a tagline - I'm only kidding!!

[Midfielder]

Well at least now u understand. Next time you start a campaign about how 'baseball players are the epitome of fitness', add a tagline - I'm only kidding!!

The discussion was about game management but yes baseball players are remarkably fit.

[vvvslaxman]

In India if you don't want to see a player in the XI, Don't include him in the squad itself. I remember mentioning about it in another thread. If you select a senior player in the squad and expect the captain to sit him out is foolishness. Happened with Zak. Now happened with Yuvraj. Just don't select him in the squad. Captain has a much larger say in team selections in cricket unlike other sports. Just don't give him c hance. It will continue to happen. If Kohli has found someone who has done exceptionally well under his captaincy and suddenly gone out of form, he won't mind giving him an extended run.