Kapil vs Botham as batsman

[gazza]

viv still averaged 54 after 77 tests, so after an 11 year period he still averaged mid 50s which is impressive regardless of strike rate. i'm not surprised you don't appreciate viv though because in regards to declines he and botham are similar.

[Muloghonto]

That's just silly' date=' makes no sense, lets remove everyone's good performances out of their records.[/quote'] There is a difference between tossing out someones best performances against a decent team and doing so coz someones a minnow basher. Botham was a minnow basher, his best bowling stats are against nz, the weakest batting lineup and best batting performance against india, the weakest bowling lineup Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[gazza]

i can't get the sense of your msg:. what do we need to do here?. compare Kapil and Botham with specialist batsmen like Viv' date=' Sachin, Ponting etc?yes... Viv would have been considered as very very good but certainly not ' among the top 4 or 5 of all time' with out str: rate.[/quote'] no we are comparing botham to kapil. my point was it's not about roles as in all rounder or specialist batsman, it was that you compare batting of every player in the same way. if you were going to compare mcgrath to walsh you'd still look at average, runs made, half centuries, centuries etc it's the same for everyone.

[Muloghonto]

no we are comparing botham to kapil. my point was it's not about roles as in all rounder or specialist batsman' date=' it was that you compare batting of every player in the same way. if you were going to compare mcgrath to walsh you'd still look at average, runs made, half centuries, centuries etc it's the same for everyone.[/quote'] And we still look at performances against the best teams, whether they beat up on minnows or not, etc. one reason kallis is not considered in tendulkar or laras class as a batsman, despite better ave is because kallis was a mediocre performer vs good bowling attacks and was a minnow basher. Same goes with beefy. A minnow basher who got found out. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[singhprakash72]

Botham had long period of decline virtually after early 80s to his retirement, his worthwhile performance during that period were far & few but he did have phenomenal run from his debut in 1977 to 1982. Kapil on other hand decline only in his bowling after mid 80s from strike bowler to being a stock bowler but his batting was pretty much the same in fact his hundred in SA at *** end of his career was exceptional.

[putrevus]

if anyone sees just averages and gives assessment on any player they really do not know what the hell they are doing. Just compare Dhoni' average and SR to david miller, just looking at those stats you think Dhobi is so far superior to Miller but the reality is miller performed heads and shoulders above Dhobi in this cup. Same thing with Imran Khan his higher average is so misleading when in fact he was more closer to tailender than a batsmen. Both Botham and Kapil were far superior to him in batting.

[rtmohanlal]

viv still averaged 54 after 77 tests' date=' so after an 11 year period he still averaged mid 50s which is impressive regardless of strike rate. i'm not surprised you don't appreciate viv though because in regards to declines he and botham are similar.[/quote'] don't make your own assumptions. to me Viv is the 2nd best batsman of all time.

[rtmohanlal]

if anyone sees just averages and gives assessment on any player they really do not know what the hell they are doing. Just compare Dhoni' average and SR to david miller, just looking at those stats you think Dhobi is so far superior to Miller but the reality is miller performed heads and shoulders above Dhobi in this cup. Same thing with Imran Khan his higher average is so misleading when in fact he was more closer to tailender than a batsmen. Both Botham and Kapil were far superior to him in batting.

thru out this topic lot of discussions were made going deep into the highlights of Botham and Kapil. these included str: rate,imact of their batting to team cause, performance against best team, peak period, consistancy thru out career,runs made against quality bowlers etc etc apart from bat avg:.based on that only conclusions were derived by each person, i suppose. based on what you yourself said Botham's avg: is misleading in that he didn't score that much against WI, didn't score that much against Imran&co(2nd best team of that time) , did score a lot against a weak Indian side(2nd from bottom apart from minnow SL those days). also i do admit that Imran's bat avg: is hugely inflated by not outs.In tests alone he is behind Kapil & Botham for me despite his superior avg:.but again him being closer to tailender is a little over the board.:winky:.

[rtmohanlal]

Botham had long period of decline virtually after early 80s to his retirement' date=' his worthwhile performance during that period were far & few but he did have phenomenal run from his debut in 1977 to 1982. Kapil on other hand decline only in his bowling after mid 80s from strike bowler to being a stock bowler but his batting was pretty much the same in fact his hundred in SA at *** end of his career was exceptional.[/quote'] the basis of all these is that Botham hugely had to depend on Underwood-Willis-Botham combination in his first 4 or 5 years.when both of them retired started Botham sharp decline. Kapil after his knee surgery too declined but not in the levels of Botham.more over Kapil never had a time period in his career where he enjoyed huge bowling support.