Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[MediumPacer]

1 hour ago, Kron said:

Oh God. Yea bye bye. He will never be int class with that pace

I think these guys should try their hand at spin as well,that way they can be very useful ,when pace doesn't work they could try spin.

[tapandrun]

 

 

8 hours ago, MediumPacer said:

Naseem doenst get that much bounce ,if anything bounce only allows batters to play their strokes in asian conditions.

 

Mavi doesnt bowl under 125 in t20s ,it's a ridiculous claim .Even under 125 someone like sandeep sharma does quite well in t20s,Infact 130-140 is ideal pace for strokeplay in india.At speeds around 120, ball wont come onto the bat and make it difficult for the batsmen to time the ball.

 

Rana does have outswing but lacks control.Bounce and pace is what allows batsmen to play their shots in India .This is why i would pick a shami or even umesh over a hazelwood or rabada in india .

Was talking about the bounce of the length, not bouncers aimed at ribs or helmet, batters are not able to play drives it either hits v.close to splice. To either batter has to play backfoot punch or pull.

 

Mavi has decreased his pace considerably, lot of his balls were under 125 kmph when he played for Ind in T20s, Last/previous to last ranji season when he was picking up bunch of wkts speedometers was showing him bowling under 125 kmph, few were as slow as 118 kmph. 

 

Yes domestic speedometers are not that accurate but there can not be a difference of 10 kmph

 

 

Edited March 12 by tapandrun

[MediumPacer]

11 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

 

Was talking about the bounce of the length, not bouncers aimed at ribs or helmet, batters are not able to play drives it either hits v.close to splice. To either batter has to play backfoot punch or pull.

 

Mavi has decreased his pace considerably, lot of his balls were under 125 kmph when he played for Ind in T20s, Last/previous to last ranji season when he was picking up bunch of wkts speedometers was showing him bowling under 125 kmph, few were as slow as 118 kmph. 

 

Yes domestic speedometers are not that accurate but there can not be a difference of 10 kmph

 

 

I was talking about bounce from length not bouncers,it helps batsmen to hit on the up,and score easily.

 

 

I cant recall mavi bowling at that pace but if he is then it's a good thing,he needs to reduce his pace. 

[tapandrun]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

In India, what works in tests and ODIs on usual pitches are pacers who are skiddy quick, bowl stump to stump and get consistent movement, either seam movement or reverse swing, even if moderate. 

 

Bumrah, Shami and Umesh are or were all pacy, get zip off the deck and bowl stump to stump with consistent movement. Saw Akashdeep do the same. All these 4 elements are usually needed. 

 

Medium pacers may beat lower quality domestic cricket batters but can't generate the pace and zip needed to beat the international batters on typical slower surfaces.. 

 

While pacers like Wood lack consistent movement and don't bowl stump to stump.  And fail in India.

 

 

Wood and Rauf are not fair assessments as both have little to no exp, bowling in Ind, this was Wood's first test series and Rauf was bowling in Ind for the 1st time.

 

Wood found success in Ind tour last time in white ball with bounce and pace, but that was t20s batters were trying to go after him. In test Ind batters knew he wont be bowling longer spells same for Anderson they always knew spinner will come eventually.

 

We have seen Ind seasoned pacers struggle to get wkts even in conditions assisting faster bowlers, because they donot know what pace to bowl and what lengths to bowl.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

4 hours ago, MediumPacer said:

This ranji season ,umran has an avg of 38 and sr of 70  and thakre avg 20 and sr 47.

And Himanshu Chauhan had an avg of 18 & SR of 38.

Fast, tall, hit the deck bowler. Completely opposite to likes of Thakre & Koushik and had better stats than both. Plus is only 20 year old.

 

Domestic teams and their pitches do matter a lot. Delhi always go for tall fast bowlers, hence most of their bowlers try to bowl quick with that attitude. Coaching is also a crucial aspect as all our bowlers were bowling much quicker under B Arun.

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, MediumPacer said:

I think these guys should try their hand at spin as well,that way they can be very useful ,when pace doesn't work they could try spin.

They should actually learn to bat.

We need a pace bowling allrounder, Deepak Chahar is always injured and Shardul is well..Shardul. 

[singhvivek141]

From the ex cricketers of previous batch. I have seen Gambhir is always interested in the promotion of fast bowlers. 

 

He fought for Navdeep Saini's inclusion in Delhi, he was the one who even played a crucial role in fast tracking of Mayank Yadav and even helped in getting him LSG IPL contract.

 

I am interested this season on how he will handle Harshit & Vaibhav for KKR. Unlike LSG I think he will not get any interference in KKR, so he can devise his own plans and ask the team to play it accordingly. I also hope that along with Starc, Harshit will be the first choice pacer (provided he is fit), unlike last year when Vaibhav was played before him.

 

I really wanted Tyagi to play this year for KKR, no one understands pace bowling better than GG. But luckily the injury to Shami has opened an opportunity for him in GT as well, he really need to nail this season with few good performances. Both Ahmedabad & Eden stadiums are big in dimension and are at sea level, so that's another advantage for him.

Edited March 12 by singhvivek141

[MediumPacer]

17 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

And Himanshu Chauhan had an avg of 18 & SR of 38.

Fast, tall, hit the deck bowler. Completely opposite to likes of Thakre & Koushik and had better stats than both. Plus is only 20 year old.

There are plenty of medium pacers and slow left armers ahead of himanshu on the wicket takers list this season,himanshu probably is the only quickish pacer on the list,so my point stands 

 

 

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Domestic teams and their pitches do matter a lot.

ranji pitch have more green grass than test match pitches in india also they are up against domestic batsmen ,so if anything it should be easier for these pacers .

[rollingstoned]

4 hours ago, Kron said:

Is he a trundler? Anyone bowling under 135 is not needed no matter how skilled unless they have steep bounce

120 Kph comfort bowling. 

[MediumPacer]

20 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

They should actually learn to bat.

We need a pace bowling allrounder, Deepak Chahar is always injured and Shardul is well..Shardul. 

if they cant bat  then at least bowl accurate spin ,it should be good enough,no need to turn it too much.

[MediumPacer]

3 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

120 Kph comfort bowling. 

highest wkt taker for vidarbha this season .

 

sr of 48,yash thakur sr is 41 and umesh sr 49

[rollingstoned]

4 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

highest wkt taker for vidarbha this season .

 

sr of 48,yash thakur sr is 41 and umesh sr 49

Not relevant to whether or not he is worth keeping an eye on. A lot of trundlers uproot trees in domestic cricket.

For that speed Chetan sharma was analyzing his action and saying it needs quite a bit of work.

Edited March 12 by rollingstoned

[singhvivek141]

6 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

There are plenty of medium pacers and slow left armers ahead of himanshu on the wicket takers list this season,himanshu probably is the only quickish pacer on the list,so my point stands 

 

Another point is the number of medium pacers in India are way higher than quicks. Hence bigger sample size to choose from.

If you start writing names, I doubt if we have more than 10 quicks playing this season.

 

Yudhvir, Hangargekar, Harshit, Mayank didn't play Ranji due to injuries. Tyagi played only 1 game, Sen only 2.

Akashdeep was perhaps the other quickish pacer who played regularly before getting India break.

[MediumPacer]

7 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

Not relevant to whether or not he is worth keeping an eye on. A lot of trundlers uproot trees in domestic cricket.

For that speed Chetan sharma was analyzing his action and saying it needs quite a bit of work.

slowness is their strength else they wouldnt be effective.

[singhvivek141]

16 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

 

ranji pitch have more green grass than test match pitches in india also they are up against domestic batsmen ,so if anything it should be easier for these pacers .

That's not right always, there were few games for J&K where Umran was a token bowler only, while all the wickets were taken by spinners.

 

Most of the teams strength in Ranji is still spin, hence they use quicks only for few overs before resorting to spin.

 

UP game where Tyagi played, again Saurabh Kumar picked most number of wickets and Tyagi outbowled Ankit Rajpoot & the other quick he was playing with. However next game, Yash & co came back..Ankit Rajpoot played but Tyagi was shooed away.

Just a game before that was a green mamba..Bhuvi Kumar was choosen along with Ankit Rajpoot..Tyagi again warmed on bench.

[MediumPacer]

8 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Another point is the number of medium pacers in India are way higher than quicks. Hence bigger sample size to choose from.

If you start writing names, I doubt if we have more than 10 quicks playing this season.

 

Yudhvir, Hangargekar, Harshit, Mayank didn't play Ranji due to injuries. Tyagi played only 1 game, Sen only 2.

Akashdeep was perhaps the other quickish pacer who played regularly before getting India break.

The number of medium pacers are higher because they are more effective in india ,just like spinners.Quicker pacers arent so effective .It is the product of our cricket

[MediumPacer]

1 minute ago, singhvivek141 said:

That's not right always, there were few games for J&K where Umran was a token bowler only, while all the wickets were taken by spinners.

 

Most of the teams strength in Ranji is still spin, hence they use quicks only for few overs before resorting to spin.

 

UP game where Tyagi played, again Saurabh Kumar picked most number of wickets and Tyagi outbowled Ankit Rajpoot & the other quick he was playing with. However next game, Yash & co came back..Ankit Rajpoot played but Tyagi was shooed away.

Just a game before that was a green mamba..Bhuvi Kumar was choosen along with Ankit Rajpoot..Tyagi again warmed on bench.

but that's the point ,even this pitch in the final has grass but still spinners are effective and there isnt much bounce for pacers ,

 

 

When they play for india there will be no grass whatsoever.

[singhvivek141]

7 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

The number of medium pacers are higher because they are more effective in india ,just like spinners.Quicker pacers arent so effective .It is the product of our cricket

Agree, and that's why selectors have to keep an eye and ensure the quicker pacers who are able to shine & manage themselves in Indian Conditions shouldn't get lost.

Once the fast bowlers will be promoted, the whole setup will start to produce more of them. Pitches will be tailored accordingly and it will increase their chances to success. Leading to make quicks coming through the ranks.

 

In 2010 we had only Umesh & Aaron. Now we have more heads, in 2030 maybe every state will have one 140+ quick as the leader of pace attack.

[MediumPacer]

35 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

In 2010 we had only Umesh & Aaron. Now we have more heads, in 2030 maybe every state will have one 140+ quick as the leader of pace attack.

i think we have stagnated

[tapandrun]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

From the ex cricketers of previous batch. I have seen Gambhir is always interested in the promotion of fast bowlers. 

 

He fought for Navdeep Saini's inclusion in Delhi, he was the one who even played a crucial role in fast tracking of Mayank Yadav and even helped in getting him LSG IPL contract.

 

I am interested this season on how he will handle Harshit & Vaibhav for KKR. Unlike LSG I think he will not get any interference in KKR, so he can devise his own plans and ask the team to play it accordingly. I also hope that along with Starc, Harshit will be the first choice pacer (provided he is fit), unlike last year when Vaibhav was played before him.

 

I really wanted Tyagi to play this year for KKR, no one understands pace bowling better than GG. But luckily the injury to Shami has opened an opportunity for him in GT as well, he really need to nail this season with few good performances. Both Ahmedabad & Eden stadiums are big in dimension and are at sea level, so that's another advantage for him.

Kolkata is Spin friendly wkt, nt sure why they paid so much for Starc.