Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[express bowling]

25 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

This thread is from 2014,it was never posted here,I doubt you would have not posted.

 

As far as I remember, I posted it in the Ranji thread. 

 

And it is no secret that Bumrah was quick in Ranji. Many posters here have seen it.

 

 

25 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Bumrah's avg speed was under 140 in tests ,that too when he was at his quickest.

 

Average speed above 140 k is very rare in tests. 

 

Bumrah averaged 139.x k in tests till 2020.

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Great test pacers like McGrath ,Pollock,vaas,philander,anderson have all operated under 135-145.

 

Please don't put Vaas's name in the same list as McGrath and Pollock.

 

As I said, McGrath, Pollock and Anderson are all tall and bouncy and belonged to non-Asian teams and played 70% of their games outside Asia.

 

Not the same as a short pacer who has to play 70% of his games in Asia. 

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

 

In india we need spinners in test,pacers aren't that important.

 

Pacers have played important roles in tests in India since 2015 or even earlier. 

 

And they are very important in ODIs in Asia. 

 

But short 130s pacer are not preferred even outside Asia.

Edited November 24, 2023 by express bowling

[singhvivek141]

21 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

 

In india we need spinners in test,pacers aren't that important.

Pacers are important, specially those who can reverse the ball. There is a reason why Steyn is rated highly vs Anderson coz he has performed in tough conditions as well.

 

Umesh & Shami has lower averages in India than their overall Test average on a decent sample because they can bowl fast and reverse the old ball.

[MediumPacer]

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

As far as I remember, I posted it in the Ranji thread. 

 

And it is no secret that Bumrah was quick in Ranji. Many posters here have seen it.

 

 

 

Average speed above 140 k is very rare in tests. 

 

Bumrah averaged 139.x k in tests till 2020.

 

 

 

 

Please don't put Vaas's name in the same list as McGrath and Pollock.

 

As I said, McGrath, Pollock and Anderson are all tall and bouncy and belonged to non-Asian teams and played 70% of their games outside Asia.

 

Not the same as a short pacer who has to play 70% of his games in Asia. 

 

 

 

 

Pacers have played important roles in tests in India since 2015 or even earlier. 

 

And they are very important in ODIs in Asia. 

 

But short 130s pacer are not preferred even outside Asia.

Likes of bhuvi ,lord have done well abroad in tests,philander as well,abbas is another similar pacer.

 

Foreigners are taller than indians, otherwise there are likes of southee, Robinson, holder etc.

[express bowling]

Just now, MediumPacer said:

Likes of bhuvi ,lord have done well abroad in tests,philander as well,abbas is another similar pacer.

 

Apart from Philander, none of the others have had decent length test careers.

 

 

[MediumPacer]

11 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Pacers are important, specially those who can reverse the ball. There is a reason why Steyn is rated highly vs Anderson coz he has performed in tough conditions as well.

 

Umesh & Shami has lower averages in India than their overall Test average on a decent sample because they can bowl fast and reverse the old ball.

In india we need dusty pitches and spinners,3 spinners can easily get 15/16 wicket.Pacers are there mostly for variation.

 

Foreign teams depends more on pacers, that's why they need likes of steyn even in our conditions.

[MediumPacer]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

Apart from Philander, none of the others have had decent length test careers.

 

 

Roach is also there ,hasn't bowled quickly in a long time ,is also short.

[singhvivek141]

9 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

In india we need dusty pitches and spinners,3 spinners can easily get 15/16 wicket.Pacers are there mostly for variation.

 

Foreign teams depends more on pacers, that's why they need likes of steyn even in our conditions.

I slightly disagree with you here, we shouldn't go with all dust bowls. Just like Australia we should create different type of pitches. Hard bounce, flat patta, green mamba & dust bowl all.

 

Else, all we get is accurate finger spinners who will get massive turn on these dust bowls will struggle to perform once they go outside...Axar Patel is a prime example, Kumble also struggled a lot overseas.

 

Also, the pacers if they won't get helpful pitches they will just become defensive, & when these pacers will go SENA they will be severely undercooked and will get overwhelmed on that occasion. Srinath has mentioned often that bowling in India made him habituated to bowl back of length, which he struggled to adjust when he was playing in SA, Australia.

Edited November 24, 2023 by singhvivek141

[express bowling]

13 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Roach is also there ,hasn't bowled quickly in a long time ,is also short.

 

There will always be 1 of 2 exceptions to everything.

 

But the easiest way to success is to find the high probabllity route to success.

Edited November 24, 2023 by express bowling

[MediumPacer]

33 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

I slightly disagree with you here, we shouldn't go with all dust bowls. Just like Australia we should create different type of pitches. Hard bounce, flat patta, green mamba & dust bowl all.

 

Else, all we get is accurate finger spinners who will get massive turn on these dust bowls will struggle to perform once they go outside...Axar Patel is a prime example, Kumble also struggled a lot overseas.

 

Also, the pacers if they won't get helpful pitches they will just become defensive, & when these pacers will go SENA they will be severely undercooked and will get overwhelmed on that occasion. Srinath has mentioned often that bowling in India made him habituated to bowl back of length, which he struggled to adjust when he was playing in SA, Australia.

Pitches are always a problem. The mixed black and red soil pitch with a touch of grass in Chennai was good,it had pace and bounce in the nz v ban game specially when lockie was bowling.Otherwise most of these only red or black soil lack sufficient pace and bounce.

 

Pune has bounce but not pace.Eden gardens had good carry post 2016 now it's all gone.

Edited November 24, 2023 by MediumPacer

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

This thread is from 2014,it was never posted here,I doubt you would have not posted.

 

Bumrah's avg speed was under 140 in tests ,that too when he was at his quickest.

 

Great test pacers like McGrath ,Pollock,vaas,philander,anderson have all operated under 135-145.

 

In india we need spinners in test,pacers aren't that important.

Hello!!!!

 

Incase you are still living in the 70's, this is 2020's, my brother!

 

Mcgrath, pollock are legends. LEGENDS!!!!! So, you take a handful names who are legends of the game, and try to push your agenda that we dont need express pace???

How about me giving you examples of 2 deliveries that haunts Indians to this day....

 

Ball 1- Rahul Dravid

Ball 2- Sachin Tendulkar

 

The nemesis- A certain kid who could bowl 'a little quick'. 

Blew the ground off of Sachin's and Dravid's feet on a traditional Indian pitch. Get the point? 

 

And just to clarify, Mcgrath and Pollock werent so slow. Mcgrath could crank it up even till 2000's, and Pollock was much quicker from 97-2000's. When Pollock lost his pace, he became a pedestrian bowler. Please check!

[MediumPacer]

59 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

As far as I remember, I posted it in the Ranji thread. 

 

And it is no secret that Bumrah was quick in Ranji. Many posters here have seen it.

 

 

 

Average speed above 140 k is very rare in tests. 

 

Bumrah averaged 139.x k in tests till 2020.

 

 

 

 

Please don't put Vaas's name in the same list as McGrath and Pollock.

 

As I said, McGrath, Pollock and Anderson are all tall and bouncy and belonged to non-Asian teams and played 70% of their games outside Asia.

 

Not the same as a short pacer who has to play 70% of his games in Asia. 

 

 

 

 

Pacers have played important roles in tests in India since 2015 or even earlier. 

 

And they are very important in ODIs in Asia. 

 

But short 130s pacer are not preferred even outside Asia.

 

 

Here is bumrah under 140k at his quickest

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Check Lockie 145k

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F55ar3cfhzr271.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D40c0c0767481303b4e46eabd1af089013b4a55f9

 

 

 

 

 

[MediumPacer]

17 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Hello!!!!

 

Incase you are still living in the 70's, this is 2020's, my brother!

 

Mcgrath, pollock are legends. LEGENDS!!!!! So, you take a handful names who are legends of the game, and try to push your agenda that we dont need express pace???

How about me giving you examples of 2 deliveries that haunts Indians to this day....

 

Ball 1- Rahul Dravid

Ball 2- Sachin Tendulkar

 

The nemesis- A certain kid who could bowl 'a little quick'. 

Blew the ground off of Sachin's and Dravid's feet on a traditional Indian pitch. Get the point? 

 

And just to clarify, Mcgrath and Pollock werent so slow. Mcgrath could crank it up even till 2000's, and Pollock was much quicker from 97-2000's. When Pollock lost his pace, he became a pedestrian bowler. Please check!

That's what I said,people here are saying 130-140k is innocuous trundling but it isn't ,greats like McGrath bowled at that pace

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MediumPacer]

My fav vasuki kaushik got 1 wk vs jk

[express bowling]

17 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

 

 

Here is bumrah under 140k at his quickest

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Check Lockie 145k

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F55ar3cfhzr271.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D40c0c0767481303b4e46eabd1af089013b4a55f9

 

 

 

 

You are just proving my point.

 

I wrote that Bumrah averaged 139.x kph in tests till 2020 and very few pacers average over 140 k in tests as career averages.

 

139.6 kph average speed is very high in tests.  Bumrah had a higher average speed than Cummins, Kumara or Rabada. 

 

Lockie doesn't play tests. He is 32 years old and hasn't played 100 LOIs yet. Can't compare him with all format pacers like Bumrah, Cummins, Starc, Shami, Rabada etc. 

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

24 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

That's what I said,people here are saying 130-140k is innocuous trundling but it isn't ,greats like McGrath bowled at that pace

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Batsmen are practicing against bowling machines set at 150 k and slinger with artificial arms bowling at 150 k.

 

The day is not far away when 135 to 145 k would be innocuous too and 140 k to 150 k would feel like Fast-medium. 

 

And we would need skilful 145 k to 155 k pacers to really hurry batters. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by express bowling

[MediumPacer]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

You are just proving my point.

 

I wrote that Bumrah averaged 139.x kph in tests till 2020 and very few pacers average over 140 k in tests as career averages.

 

139.6 kph average speed is very high in tests.  Bumrah had a higher average speed than Cummins, Kumara or Rabada. 

 

Lockie doesn't play tests. He is 32 years old and hasn't played 100 LOIs yet. Can't compare him with all format pacers like Bumrah, Cummins, Starc, Shami, Rabada etc. 

 

 

 

 

That was only for 2018 not till 2020.

 

Shows pace is not enough ,they play Wagner,southee ahead of Lockie ,also due to injuries.

[MediumPacer]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

 

Batsmen are practicing against bowling machines set at 150 k and slinger with artificial arms bowling at 150 k.

 

The day is not far away when 135 to 145 k would be innocuous and 140 k to 150 k would feel like Fast-medium. 

 

And we would need skilful 145 k to 155 k pacers to really hurry batters. 

Likes of southee,Robinson ,anderson have all done well in this era,McGrath is better than all of them.

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, MediumPacer said:

That was only for 2018 not till 2020.

 

I know. But there was a Cricviz article in 2020 which stated that Bumrah was averaging 139.x kph as his career average speeds in tests till then. 

 

Any average speed above 137 kph is quick in tests. 

 

1 minute ago, MediumPacer said:

Shows pace is not enough ,they play Wagner,southee ahead of Lockie ,also due to injuries.

 

 

Who has said that only pace is enough ?  

 

Southee averages 29 in tests despite playing 50% of his tests in swing friendly New Zealand.  I am not looking for mediocre bowlers like him. 

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Likes of southee,Robinson ,anderson have all done well in this era,McGrath is better than all of them.

 

McGrath played in the 1990s and early 2000s.  I am talking about preparing for the late 2020s and early 2030s.

 

And I don't know why you keep bringing up English and NZ pacers who have the chance to play 50% to 60% of their tests in swing friendly conditions.  Indian pacers won't get that chance. 

[MediumPacer]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

McGrath played in the 1990s and early 2000s.  I am talking about preparing for the late 2020s and early 2030s.

 

And I don't know why you keep bringing up English and NZ pacers who have the chance to play 50% to 60% of their tests in swing friendly conditions.  Indian pacers won't get that chance. 

In indian conditions pacers aren't needed,and outside asia those guys are good enough,that leaves us with ban,sl since we don't tour pak.