Is Shoaib Chucking It?

[Dhondy]

Action looking increasingly suspect through this series. Even them stars have to follow the rules. He may have been cleared many years ago, but the authorities need to take a fresh look, methinks. And no, I am not whinging. I think he is a great bowler when his mind is in gear. However, I can't condone his doping, and now this blatant throwing.

[Anakin]

Agree with you, his action looks worse now.

[Ram]

For ****'s sake, it is so annoying everytime they put the ultra motion clip of bowling action and Rameez comes up with this " That is hyper-extension" , when there is palpably no hyper-extension of the elbow at all. Of course , even Rameez might have shielded his " he throws" with his " hyper-extending" comment. Seriously guys , Shoaib isnt hyper-extending , what he is bowling is un-adulterated chucking.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Bumper]

The day Shoaib does something legal, he'll be in news. Terrific bowling talunt, but referring to him as a bowler is pretty charitable remark. I dont think his action has gotten any worse. Its been this way pretty much all along.

[MundaPakistani]

amazing how you folks can come up with these conclusions after watching 2 dimensional pictures! If you look closely at the 2 D pics then in the delivery stride there is a bent even in his left arm so what does that tell you?

[Bumper]

amazing how you folks can come up with these conclusions after watching 2 dimensional pictures! If you look closely at the 2 D pics then in the delivery stride there is a bent even in his left arm so what does that tell you?

Are u saying he can chuck with his left arm too :D

[sm332]

i am just over this debate ... it is pointless and futile

[Sachinism]

yeh i agree with you, he really does look like he is chucking the ball

[MundaPakistani]

Are u saying he can chuck with his left arm too :D

think about it man. Why would a right arm fast bowler intentionally bend his left arm in delivery stride? Wouldn’t it make him ineffective?

[Dhondy]

MP, it appears to me you don't know what hyperextension is. Presumably, you are pointing out that since both arms are bent, that makes his action alright. But see, it's the extension of the flexed elbow that determines chucking. Extension beyond the normal (180 degrees) can be explained by hyperextension, but how does it explain extension from 150 degree to 180 degree? The camera compared his action with Munaf Patel, and it was quite clear that his elbow was flexed just before delivery. It should have been straight at that point.

[zubinpepsi]

i am just over this debate ... it is pointless and futile

Yes INDEED.... and pakistanis willl never accept the fact tht he chucks and he used drugs.. they criticize indian umpires of bias when its clealry known tht indian umpires are incompetent whereas they quite clearly put aisde the biasness shown by the umpires in Sharjah... Hypocrites....

[coffee_rules]

Harbhajan's doosra also iffy to me. I put Shoaib and Bhajji a rung below Murali who is worse repeat offender of all.

[MundaPakistani]

MP, it appears to me you don't know what hyperextension is. Presumably, you are pointing out that since both arms are bent, that makes his action alright. But see, it's the extension of the flexed elbow that determines chucking. Extension beyond the normal (180 degrees) can be explained by hyperextension, but how does it explain extension from 150 degree to 180 degree? The camera compared his action with Munaf Patel, and it was quite clear that his elbow was flexed just before delivery. It should have been straight at that point.

There is the problem. You are looking at the 2 dimensional picture and assuming it's 150 degrees.

[Dhondy]

There is the problem. You are looking at the 2 dimensional picture and assuming it's 150 degrees.

How many dimensions do you need to determine if an elbow is straightening excessively, MP? I don't suppose you are suggesting that we measure the angle on a front-on view? In any case, that's where comparisons come in. Both bowlers were shown from the same camera angle. And yes, Bhajji's doosra is a definite chuck. He's just clever enough to wear full sleeves.

[MundaPakistani]

How many dimensions do you need to determine if an elbow is straightening excessively' date= MP? I don't suppose you are suggesting that we measure the angle on a front-on view? In any case, that's where comparisons come in. Both bowlers were shown from the same camera angle. And yes, Bhajji's doosra is a definite chuck. He's just clever enough to wear full sleeves.

3.

[Dhondy]

3.

Since the straightening is occuring in an antero-posterior direction (front to back), therefore a side-on view is sufficient. Interesting, that you ignore this simple common sense perspective to argue your point. Why such opportunism? When people here were accusing the Pakistani players of Bob's murder, you seemed to see the lack of scientific basis in their arguments? Again, when I made a half-facetious comment on nandrolone dopers growing boobs, or females growing hair on their breasts, you seemed to suggest that I was angling for a few laughs. Maybe so, but those are recognized side effects of anabolic steroids. I wouldn't waste your time by "inventing" medical facts and perspectives.

[gs]

How many dimensions do you need to determine if an elbow is straightening excessively, MP? I don't suppose you are suggesting that we measure the angle on a front-on view? In any case, that's where comparisons come in. Both bowlers were shown from the same camera angle. And yes, Bhajji's doosra is a definite chuck. He's just clever enough to wear full sleeves.

True. Full sleeves or not, Bhajji sucked big time this test!

[Guest HariSampath]

The issue of chucking has been obfuscated by the ICC for several years. The laws of cricket are very clear when it comes to chucking. If a bowler delivers a ball with an action that is illegal by the existing laws on bowling action, then that particular ball is no balled by the square leg umpire. Period. Bowlers cannot be called chuckers in a blanket manner, it is only those deliveries that are called. So, even if Shoaib Akthar had been cleared by the ICC some years back, that is no guarantee he should never be called for chucking by any umpire during any match. For example, Sreeshanth has a perfectly legal action.. if he were to just run up and "throw" a ball at a batsman, can he claim he has never had any issue with the ICC ? wrong. He would be called for chucking that particular ball. And if he were to bowl normally after that Sree cannot be called. The umpire would report Sreeshanth's action as having chucked once and if ICC wre to require Sree to get his action cleared, he would of course pass with flying colors. Same way, bowlers who do have a >15degree bent in their bowling arm before the point of straightening are now considered bowlers with legal action. That doesn't prvent any bowler from chucking the odd one here and there, and the common refrain would be "his action has been cleared by ICC".. that is incorrect... the action may have been cleared under controlled circumstances, but the bowler can also bowl an illegal delivery in a match situation. This is what Warne had said about "bowlers should be analysed in Match situations"..recently, sparking off the row between him and Murali. I feel Warne is perfectly right in making that very wise statement in a general way ( although I am not saying anything about Murali's action here). ICC need to have on the spot analysis and laws regarding chucking

[kabira]

very good post Haribhai. you make great point. Shoaib seems to chuck during match situations and he does not chuck every delivery