Kalia_Test Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 Request the ICFers to be civil and pls provide their views on this topic...I am starting this topic not as one question but a series of questions over time...pls bear with me while I pick up items for discussion as we go along.....:icflove: This is about the preambles to a nation's constitution. As you all might be aware , ( borrowing from wiki ) , "A constitution is a set of fundamental principles or established precedents according to which a state or other organization is governed. " There will be hundreds and thousands of laws, structures in a nation but the constitution is the basis for it. Preamble to a Constitution declares the basis for such a Constitution. As a case study, I have picked up the preambles for India, US and Pakistan...Before I go any further, I will provide them as they are ( feel free to ask me for sources ). India WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens: JUSTICE, social, economic and political; LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship; EQUALITY of status and of opportunity; and to promote among them all FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation; IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this twenty-sixth day of November, 1949, do HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION. United States We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Pakistan Whereas sovereignty over the entire Universe belongs to Almighty Allah alone, and the authority to be exercised by the people of Pakistan within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust; And whereas it is the will of the people of Pakistan to establish an order :- Wherein the State shall exercise its powers and authority through the chosen representatives of the people; Wherein the principles of democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice, as enunciated by Islam, shall be fully observed; Wherein the Muslims shall be enabled to order their lives in the individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings and requirements of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and Sunnah; Wherein adequate provision shall be made for the minorities freely to profess and practise their religions and develop their cultures; Wherein the territories now included in or in accession with Pakistan and such other territories as may hereafter be included in or accede to Pakistan shall form a Federation wherein the units will be autonomous with such boundaries and limitations on their powers and authority as may be prescribed; Therein shall be guaranteed fundamental rights, including equality of status, of opportunity and before law, social, economic and political justice, and freedom of thought, expression, belief, faith, worship and association, subject to law and public morality; Wherein adequate provision shall be made to safeguard the legitimate interests of minorities and backward and depressed classes; Wherein the independence of the judiciary shall be fully secured; Wherein the integrity of the territories of the Federation, its independence and all its rights, including its sovereign rights on land, sea and air, shall be safeguarded; So that the people of Pakistan may prosper and attain their rightful and honoured place amongst the nations of the World and make their full contribution towards international peace and progress and happiness of humanity : Now, therefore, we, the people of Pakistan, Cognisant of our responsibility before Almighty Allah and men; Cognisant of the sacrifices made by the people in the cause of Pakistan; Faithful to the declaration made by the Founder of Pakistan, Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah, that Pakistan would be a democratic State based on Islamic principles of social justice; Dedicated to the preservation of democracy achieved by the unremitting struggle of the people against oppression and tyranny; Inspired by the resolve to protect our national and political unity and solidarity by creating an egalitarian society through a new order; Do hereby, through our representatives in the National Assembly, adopt, enact and give to ourselves, this Constitution. ------------------------------------------------------ I know that Pakistan is an Islamic nation and therefore it is worded that way... First point of discussion.... For India and US - only nations in world where the preamble starts with WE THE PEOPLE - the preamble CLEARLY states that the PEOPLE of the respective nations adopted the constitution. When we say people it will mean elected representatives in a democracy. Only the PEOPLE ( through their representatives ) can amend the Preamble ( and therefore constitution ). There are a host of countries where the PREAMBLE is open to interpretation as it was never the will of PEOPLE but of some other thing which can be interpreted by anyone to suit their interests. Do you agree with all the clauses in the Indian PREAMBLE?
Crookbond Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 The only thing I do not agree is the "Socialist" - not because Socialism is a bad virtue but there's no need for it to be in the constitution preamble.
Kalia_Test Posted November 22, 2014 Author Posted November 22, 2014 The only thing I do not agree is the "Socialist" - not because Socialism is a bad virtue but there's no need for it to be in the constitution preamble. Excellent point for discussion. Questions for you 1. What came to your mind first when you saw the word Socialist? Is it State owned companies owning natural resources like Coal, Oil, metals,etc? 2. Considering the situation India was/is in, was it such a bad idea for the State to own natural resources ( we were/are surely not in a position to give ownership of natural resources to private parties) 3. If it was not in preamble, chances are it won't get manifested into laws..if it was not in law, then any private company will own natural resources of nation with capital appreciation as motive and not resource distribution...Surely private companies ( domestic or international ) will have profit maximisation as objective?
FischerTal Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 I remember in high school for civics class, I had to memorize the American preamble for a pop quiz. Now don't remember anything except we the people :phehehe:
Vilander Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 We the people Liberty Equality Fraternity, is all that i remember now. Thanks for a trip down to my civics class, i fancied the teacher, Francis Regis, god bless her what an awesome lady.
Kalia_Test Posted November 22, 2014 Author Posted November 22, 2014 We the people Liberty Equality Fraternity' date=' is all that i remember now. Thanks for a trip down to my civics class, i fancied the teacher, Francis Regis, god bless her what an awesome lady.[/quote'] Tharki log - contribute to thread positively....atleast for HOT Francis Regis :winky: Seriously, pls do provide your views...
Crookbond Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Excellent point for discussion. Questions for you 1. What came to your mind first when you saw the word Socialist? Is it State owned companies owning natural resources like Coal, Oil, metals,etc? 2. Considering the situation India was/is in, was it such a bad idea for the State to own natural resources ( we were/are surely not in a position to give ownership of natural resources to private parties) 3. If it was not in preamble, chances are it won't get manifested into laws..if it was not in law, then any private company will own natural resources of nation with capital appreciation as motive and not resource distribution...Surely private companies ( domestic or international ) will have profit maximisation as objective? 1. Economic Policies 2. No 3. Ownership of companies is an economic executive and not a legal decision.
Laaloo Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 I remember in high school for civics class' date=' I had to memorize the American preamble for a pop quiz. Now don't remember anything except we the people :phehehe:[/quote'] we the people in order to make a more perfect union i think lol
Vilander Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 we the people in order to make a more perfect union i think lol lol..perfect union alrite.
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