Lord Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Both Raina and Rohit are technically deficient. But, Rohit's attitude in tests is far worse. None of the are my first choice no.6. But, we are out of options. Another adventurous approach could be Opening with Rahul. Dhawan at no.6. Dhawan is not good against the moving ball but he fights it out. May click at no.6. Dhawan struggles vs offspin too.Can be worth trying though.
Kalia_Test Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Our pace bowlers are far inferior and experienced than theirs,plus its their home conditions.We should have extra seamer for that.Effectively they have 5 seam bowling options,we should atleast have 4. Besides,you ignored my other point?What benefit does Rohit provide as extra batsmen when he can't even bat on this pitch.We know how he is on seaming tracks See...my point is simple...quality cannot be compensated by quantity...why don't you look at it this way - More batsmen can help us put a bigger total and create that little bit more pressure? More runs can only help our bowlers....I agree Aus has more seam bowling options in their frontline batsmen which we don't have...we can't manufacture them now can we? On Rohit, I believe one match is not enough to discard anyone....who know the bounce might suit his kind of play...also, who are the replacements, assuming same team composition as I suggested i.e a proper batsman? Raina? No please...Rahul? He is an opener and will come in for Dhawan if he continues to fail...
express bowling Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Dhoni' date='Ashwin,Bhuvi are enough to compensate for extra batsmen.We would love to have seam AR but since its not there we gotta make best of what we have[/quote'] Bhuvi is most probably out of the series with injury. If he were there then Dhoni Ashwin Bhuvi Aaron Ishant Umesh would have ideal for 6 to 11 positions at the Gabba.
bharat297 Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 We gotta make use of what we have.None of our spinner will get wickets in Aus' date='so we gotta go for balance.Ashwin's batting can't be ignored with that excuse.He'll be picked as 5th bowler with 4 quicker,not as main bowler so bowling economically is okay as it helps build pressure.Any wicket is a bonus[/quote'] Firstly, I think picking 5 bowlers in Brisbane is silly because it's already a bowlers deck. You need to play 6 batsmen. Secondly, I think picking Ashwin as a 5th bowling option and an allrounder is sending the message to him that he's an allrounder, which he's not. He's a spin bowler who can bat well down the order. It's the same reason that Mitchell Johnson when he was struggling in 2010/11 wasn't played as an all-rounder. Ashwin needs to take wickets if he's in the side. I don't mind sticking with Karn Sharma and giving him a few more Tests before making a call, but we should encourage our spinners to be wicket takers and not try to hide them by playing 5 rubbish bowlers.
Lord Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 See...my point is simple...quality cannot be compensated by quantity...why don't you look at it this way - More batsmen can help us put a bigger total and create that little bit more pressure? More runs can only help our bowlers....I agree Aus has more seam bowling options in their frontline batsmen which we don't have...we can't manufacture them now can we? On Rohit, I believe one match is not enough to discard anyone....who know the bounce might suit his kind of play...also, who are the replacements, assuming same team composition as I suggested i.e a proper batsman? Raina? No please...Rahul? He is an opener and will come in for Dhawan if he continues to fail... We have more batsmen in this match,did it help the bowlers?4 bowler combo has been tried since 2011 but has failed,why not try a different one now. Quality can be compensated by quantity to an extent.You can't get 20 wickets with 3 young pacers,but 4 can do the job. Mitch Marsh and Watson,or atleast one of them is playing over specialist batsmen simply because they can bowl. More batsmen will help us with big totals only if they actually score.Not happening.Ashwin can easily do what 6th batsmen does
bowl_out Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 See... my point is simple...quality cannot be compensated by quantity... why don't you look at it this way - More batsmen can help us put a bigger total and create that little bit more pressure? You contradict your own point. Rohit is quantity
bharat297 Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 See...my point is simple...quality cannot be compensated by quantity...why don't you look at it this way - More batsmen can help us put a bigger total and create that little bit more pressure? More runs can only help our bowlers....I agree Aus has more seam bowling options in their frontline batsmen which we don't have...we can't manufacture them now can we? On Rohit, I believe one match is not enough to discard anyone....who know the bounce might suit his kind of play...also, who are the replacements, assuming same team composition as I suggested i.e a proper batsman? Raina? No please...Rahul? He is an opener and will come in for Dhawan if he continues to fail... I think we should continue with Rohit until the end of the series. For 5 of our top 6 batsman, this is the first time they are playing a Test match in Australia. Kohli struggled for the first couple of Tests last series and then came good at the back end. All of the top 6 are good in Indian conditions and if say 2 or 3 of these 5 do well in Australia too it will help India in the long run. Also, on the bench, we have someone who struggles even more against pace and swing, and a rookie (who will most likely have to go through the same process as our current top 5 are going through).
Lord Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Firstly, I think picking 5 bowlers in Brisbane is silly because it's already a bowlers deck. You need to play 6 batsmen. Secondly, I think picking Ashwin as a 5th bowling option and an allrounder is sending the message to him that he's an allrounder, which he's not. He's a spin bowler who can bat well down the order. It's the same reason that Mitchell Johnson when he was struggling in 2010/11 wasn't played as an all-rounder. Ashwin needs to take wickets if he's in the side. I don't mind sticking with Karn Sharma and giving him a few more Tests before making a call, but we should encourage our spinners to be wicket takers and not try to hide them by playing 5 rubbish bowlers. Ashwin averages 40 with the bat and has done well in most conditions.Why can't he be allrounder?Is there a specific test he needs to pass before becoming one? You can encourage all you want but spinners are not gonna take wickets in these conditions.Adelaide was best chance but even here Karn couldnt do much.Pitches are only gonna be unsupportive for spin from now on.
bowl_out Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 I agree Aus has more seam bowling options in their frontline batsmen which we don't have...we can't manufacture them now can we? Our fast bowlers except for Ishant aren't built for long spells. Aaron is far more effective with a burst of 5 overs than a long 8 over spell. We saw his aggression against Warner. We have a similar case with Umesh and to an extent Shami... Five bowlers will only help them bowler shorter, more effective spells thus requiring batsmen to make fewer runs.... It has always been a case with India that batsmen compensate for what the bowlers concede.... The five bowler strategy could change that.
Kalia_Test Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 You contradict your own point. Rohit is quantity Well, if you already decided that he is a useless batsman, then yes...but I haven't...especially as this is one test and his replacements are not much better....
express bowling Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Playing Rohit and thinking we have 6 proper batsmen maybe fooling ourselves. His overseas test batting quality is like an alrounder good enough for no.7 or no.8. No sense of responsibility, technically not good and has hitting ability. Will be inconsistent and may shine occasionally.
Kalia_Test Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 I think we should continue with Rohit until the end of the series. For 5 of our top 6 batsman, this is the first time they are playing a Test match in Australia. Kohli struggled for the first couple of Tests last series and then came good at the back end. All of the top 6 are good in Indian conditions and if say 2 or 3 of these 5 do well in Australia too it will help India in the long run. Also, on the bench, we have someone who struggles even more against pace and swing, and a rookie (who will most likely have to go through the same process as our current top 5 are going through). +1
bowl_out Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Spinners won't do shyte in Gabba.... Four quicks is mandatory... The choice is between Rohit / Raina / Ashwin for No. 7... A batsman who can bowl or a bowler who can bat? But as I see it, Ash is a better bowler and better batsman than the other two in these conditions... Case resolved as far as I am concerned...
jatinder Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Vijay Dhawan Pujara Kohli Rahane Rahul Dhoni Ashwin Umesh Aaron Ishant
Lord Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Spinners won't do shyte in Gabba.... Four quicks is mandatory... The choice is between Rohit / Raina / Ashwin for No. 7... A batsman who can bowl or a bowler who can bat? But as I see it, Ash is a better bowler and better batsman than the other two in these conditions... Case resolved as far as I am concerned... Exactly
bharat297 Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Ashwin averages 40 with the bat and has done well in most conditions.Why can't he be allrounder?Is there a specific test he needs to pass before becoming one? You can encourage all you want but spinners are not gonna take wickets in these conditions.Adelaide was best chance but even here Karn couldnt do much.Pitches are only gonna be unsupportive for spin from now on. Because making a good 30 or 40 here and there doesn't make you an all rounder. Brisbane is not completely unsupportive for spin. It has good bounce, which can make a spinner more threatening. I would pick Ashwin, but at No.8. At No.8 he can still contribute with the bat, without having the added burden of being an all-rounder.
express bowling Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Well' date=' if you already decided that he is a useless batsman, then yes...but I haven't...especially as this is one test and his replacements are not much better....[/quote'] It's his casual attitude and approach, whenever he is playing outside the subcontinent, whether tests or odis.... that irks me. I have seen no change in that in both the innings he has played.
Kalia_Test Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 We have more batsmen in this match,did it help the bowlers?4 bowler combo has been tried since 2011 but has failed,why not try a different one now. Quality can be compensated by quantity to an extent.You can't get 20 wickets with 3 young pacers,but 4 can do the job. Mitch Marsh and Watson,or atleast one of them is playing over specialist batsmen simply because they can bowl. More batsmen will help us with big totals only if they actually score.Not happening.Ashwin can easily do what 6th batsmen does As I mentioned earlier...if there was a venue where 5 bowlers made sense, it was Adelaide... Seems you believe Ashwin can consistently make bigger scores than Rohit...I don't... Also, your arguments can be used in a reverse way too...more bowlers will help us if they actually take wickets... anyway, it is all in MSD's hands and hope he takes a good look at the pitch and conditions and makes a decision...:two_thumbs_up:
bowl_out Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Because making a good 30 or 40 here and there doesn't make you an all rounder If we had that good 30 or 40 today from our No.6, we would have probably won
Lord Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Because making a good 30 or 40 here and there doesn't make you an all rounder. Brisbane is not completely unsupportive for spin. It has good bounce, which can make a spinner more threatening. I would pick Ashwin, but at No.8. At No.8 he can still contribute with the bat, without having the added burden of being an all-rounder. You don't average 40 with 30 or 40 here and there.Plus he has done it overseas as well unlike our so called specialist batsmen.Even with pressure of being allrounder,,he can't do worse than them,right? Good,Gabba has bounce.Even more reason to pick him as hes tall and can extract something out of it.
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