Gabba - Brisbane : How many bowlers do we need?

[Number]

We just took 12 wickets at over 65 in this match with 3-1 combo.Somehow that same combo would be enough to take 20 wickets in Gabba because of better conditions or bcoz more experienced bowlers did it here in the past.seems right

At the most subcontinental type wicket we folded twice in total of 2 days and 1 session. how can we hope we can save the game or score challenging total on the most bouncy wicket with just 5 batsmen ?

[bowl_out]

At the most subcontinental type wicket we folded twice in total of 2 days and 1 session. how can we hope we can save the game or score challenging total on the most bouncy wicket with just 5 batsmen ?

No, 6... Ashwin included... He is a better bat than Rohit and Raina in these conditions

[Stuge]

We have a long tail who doesn't know how to bat at all .

[bharat297]

We have a long tail who doesn't know how to bat at all .

That's why Ashwin at No.8 is more valuable than Ashwin at No.6 or 7. He is equal as a spinner to Karn Sharma and better with the bat.

[Lord]

At the most subcontinental type wicket we folded twice in total of 2 days and 1 session. how can we hope we can save the game or score challenging total on the most bouncy wicket with just 5 batsmen ?

We made 444 and 315.Not bad at all We can do with 5 batsmen bcoz the 6th is doing nothing.If he can't be reliable on flat pitch,what do you expect on a tougher one? Ashwin can easily do that role and allow extra bowler. Plus Dhoni coming back for Saha will also boost batting a bit

[Old guy]

We made 444 and 315.Not bad at all We can do with 5 batsmen bcoz the 6th is doing nothing.If he can't be reliable on flat pitch,what do you expect on a tougher one? Ashwin can easily do that role and allow extra bowler. Plus Dhoni coming back for Saha will also boost batting a bit

+1 specially on these tracks the sixth batsman unless he is world class will be liability and has been liability so better go with spinner in his place and 4 quicks so atlas we have chance to get 20 wickets

[Crookbond]

The whole issue here is not whether we should play the 6th batsman but WHO the 6th batsman should be. That;s where Lord is making a subtle point - since Rohit Sharma is the 6th batsman (and this is contextual), we might as well go with another bowler. It is an interesting point and definitely merits a discussion to the least.

[Lord]

The whole issue here is not whether we should play the 6th batsman but WHO the 6th batsman should be. That;s where Lord is making a subtle point - since Rohit Sharma is the 6th batsman (and this is contextual)' date=' we might as well go with another bowler. It is an interesting point and definitely merits a discussion to the least.[/quote'] Exactly

[Marut]

If the three pacers are Shami, Ishant, Aaron - sorry three pacers aren't enough to get 20 wickets. Copying Australia is a fail strategy. If our first aim is a draw then go for three pacer approach. If we want to win, four pacers are a must. I don't see three Indian pacers getting 20 wickets, barring a brain fart by Australia.

[Old guy]

The whole issue here is not whether we should play the 6th batsman but WHO the 6th batsman should be. That;s where Lord is making a subtle point - since Rohit Sharma is the 6th batsman (and this is contextual)' date=' we might as well go with another bowler. It is an interesting point and definitely merits a discussion to the least.[/quote'] basically saying ashwin is better batsman than rohit sharma in way in which he does to gets abused and trolled ? smart pedo this lord is :agree:

[Crookbond]

Exactly

Lets make it a bit more interesting. Would your opinion change if we play another batsman in that position? Lets say we try Saha as a WK and Dhoni as the No.6 batsman at the Gabba. Personally, I think it is worth the experiment despite people saying Dhoni isn't a good batsman etc. Akash Chopra had a pretty interesting analysis on Dhoni's change in technique and I'd like to see how he copes up. I don't even mind using Ojha as a WK OR bringing in KL Rahul at that position.

[Old guy]

then question is...is saha better than ashwin ? and is it worth sacrificing 5th bowling option ?

[Lord]

Lets make it a bit more interesting. Would your opinion change if we play another batsman in that position? Lets say we try Saha as a WK and Dhoni as the No.6 batsman at the Gabba. Personally' date=' I think it is worth the experiment despite people saying Dhoni isn't a good batsman etc. Akash Chopra had a pretty interesting analysis on Dhoni's change in technique and I'd like to see how he copes up. I don't even mind using Ojha as a WK OR bringing in KL Rahul at that position.[/quote'] Is Dhoni reliable as Ashwin? I know he did well in England but Ashwin has better overseas record overall. Ashwin makes it on batting alone IMO.bowling is bonus. But yeah that would still be better than Rohit or Raina But in that scenario Ashwin won't play.I'd still chose 4 quicks and have Vijay/Kohli to bowl part time stuff

[Lord]

basically saying ashwin is better batsman than rohit sharma in way in which he does to gets abused and trolled ? smart pedo this lord is :agree:

Who will abuse? Everyone except maniac will support me :P

[youngindia]

We made 444 and 315.Not bad at all

this is not how it works... there may be cases where 4 batsmen make 600...does not mean four batsmen are enough there may be cases where bhuvi makes 60...does not mean bhuvi can be relied upon.. ashwin may have done well for a no 8 ...does not mean he is a specialist bat strategy is for a long period of team across many scenarios and seasons 6 batsmen is based on the history of test cricket over 140 years to cover the widest range of scenarios and it has proved the most feasible option......that's cricketing sense and experience over decades speaking and in nonasian conditions and against strong attacks, its almost imperative

We can do with 5 batsmen bcoz the 6th is doing nothing

5 batsmen is never going to be feasible for a top tier team for any significant period of time ....it can be hidden under certain scenarios yes...but not consistently the 6th batsman has to be developed somehow at all costs...one player or two players failing does not mean it should be vacant...someone has to be developed at that position.

[Lord]

this is not how it works... there may be cases where 4 batsmen make 600...does not mean four batsmen are enough there may be cases where bhuvi makes 60...does not mean bhuvi can be relied upon.. ashwin may have done well for a no 8 ...does not mean he is a specialist bat strategy is for a long period of team across many scenarios and seasons 6 batsmen is based on the history of test cricket over 140 years to cover the widest range of scenarios and it has proved the most feasible option......that's cricketing sense and experience over decades speaking and in nonasian conditions and against strong attacks, its almost imperative 5 batsmen is never going to be feasible for a top tier team for any significant period of time ....it can be hidden under certain scenarios yes...but not consistently the 6th batsman has to be developed somehow at all costs...one player or two players failing does not mean it should be vacant...someone has to be developed at that position.

I am talking about short term measures only given the current resources we have.Obviously 6th batsman needs to developed overtime

[youngindia]

+1 specially on these tracks the sixth batsman unless he is world class will be liability and has been liability so better go with spinner in his place and 4 quicks so atlas we have chance to get 20 wickets

what "chance to take 20 wickets " are you talking about? this is the height of illogic and absurdity just because one extra bowler is added a side that takes 14 wickets is going to take 20? are you for real? bowler of similar quality= attack of the same level...is it so hard for you to grasp? when people are moving a broken down bus or car, extra people can help because they bring in additional physical strength what "extra" does a fifth bowler bring in case of bowling?....getafix's magic potion? he is just sharing the overs instead of 4.....same bowling level,same probability of getting wickets sharing workload does not increase the strength of attack you lot remind of flat earth believers, UFO sightseers. talking about things that has not happened or going to happen. if your theory was decent, you should be able to provide instances where it has worked.. why is there not a SINGLE INSTANCE of an overseas win across some three decades for indian cricket? why it has been so hard to play 5 bowlers even in the days of kapil and prabhakar if your theory was workable , it would have worked by now we have seen our batting excel...we have seen spinner winning for us at home...these things have happened becase they are real you hardly see your theory in practise because it does not work feasibly for the long term opinions have to be based on proper facts and ground realities..otherwise your opinions go into the realm of fantasies. bother about what happens on a cricket field FIRST .what is use of quixotic theories that are unsubstantiated to say the least?

[Crookbond]

Is Dhoni reliable as Ashwin? I know he did well in England but Ashwin has better overseas record overall. Ashwin makes it on batting alone IMO.bowling is bonus. But yeah that would still be better than Rohit or Raina But in that scenario Ashwin won't play.I'd still chose 4 quicks and have Vijay/Kohli to bowl part time stuff

That's the punt you have to take and for one Test match - it might be worth it.

[Lord]

That's the punt you have to take and for one Test match - it might be worth it.

But we don't have to unless Dhoni is injured and can't keep

[Crookbond]

But we don't have to unless Dhoni is injured and can't keep

You were looking at it pragmatically - Rohit not being good enough, I'm doing the same. For a moment assume Dhoni is fit and he'd play. Now, he's in the team for sure - we can't change that no matter what we do. I wouldn't really want Dhoni keeping - Saha is better than Dhoni. Similarly, I think Dhoni can do well during batting as he's relieved of the WK load and has one less thing to think about.