Kalia_Test Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Please spare us normal posters who want to comment on world happenings without being tagged as secular or non-secular. Whenever you have urge to bring the secular vs non-secular Indian politics, kindly come to this thread by referencing the post and post here Like-minded people, kindly vote this thread in - thanks. I am sure there are many posters who are sick of the fights in each and every thread...
Kalia_Test Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 A simple " I agree - kindly spare us this secular vs non-secular in each and every thread" post would suffice.... Thanks
riya Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 What do u mean by this thread.Not allowing a person to have a different opinion is exactly the basis of extremism..There should be opinions from both sides,whether u agree with or not..Thats how democracy works.
Kalia_Test Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 What do u mean by this thread.Not allowing a person to have a different opinion is exactly the basis of extremism..There should be opinions from both sides' date='whether u agree with or not..Thats how democracy works.[/quote'] Sometimes it helps to know the context... This is about BJP vs Congress in every damn thread - even the Paris attack thread and host of threads not even involving India... You want this in every damn thread? Muslims killed French cartoonists - see "seculars" are not posting in the thread. You want this?
bulbul Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Not so simple,topics are interconnected. Also there is no BJP vs Con party debates as people are ashamed to call themselves as Con party supporters :giggle: PS: There is very few (1 or 2) true seculars in ICF (atleast people who pist regularly in poltical section).You can easily identify by post pattern.
adi B Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 Agree with kalia,too much derailment of threads nowadays to score brownie points by calling each other chaddis,psecs etc.not cool!!
coffee_rules Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 Let copy a post from the Paris attack thread.. An Open letter to moderate Muslims (by a Muslim writer) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-open-letter-to-moderat_b_5930764.html?ir=India Unfortunately, this is what's eating away at your credibility. This is what makes otherwise rational moderate Muslims look remarkably inconsistent. Despite your best intentions, you also embolden anti-Muslim bigots -- albeit unknowingly -- by effectively narrowing the differences between yourselves and the fundamentalists. You condemn all kinds of terrible things being done in the name of your religion, but when the same things appear as verses in your book, you use all your faculties to defend them. This comes across as either denial or disingenuousness, both of which make an honest conversation impossible. This presents an obvious dilemma. The belief that the Quran is the unquestionable word of God is fundamental to the Islamic faith, and held by the vast majority of Muslims worldwide, fundamentalist or progressive. Many of you believe that letting it go is as good as calling yourself non-Muslim. I get that. But does it have to be that way? More often we have debated on what moderate muslims can do do stem the resentment of others. Such voices questioning the interpretation of Quran needs to be heard more. Just because it is the word of god, need not be followed (fundoos) and defended (moderate). Other religions also went around questioning the "word of god" and have become civil and secular.
Kalia_Test Posted January 9, 2015 Author Posted January 9, 2015 I think every religion needs to let go of certain things in their books,etc. Every book is written by a human and over time, they do get corrupted. Even if the letter is preserved by some means, the circumstances change and stone age beliefs have no place in modern world. Being a hindu, I have read most of Vedas and Puranas. However, Vedas are nothing but personifying the elements with some stories thrown in. Puranas are mythologies with some nice stories .I know that 90% are fiction and 10% may be historical ( especially the later Puranas). Some items in Puranas made their way to rituals ( vratas, homas, pujas,etc). I don't quite believe them but play along as it is a family practice and more importantly, it is a harmless exercise. I look at it as an opportunity for charity where we give away dakshina, some bananas, feed some people,etc and that can't be bad. I am not an atheist by any means but choose to see God in people, events. Muslims have a misconception IMO that hindus are idol worshippers. It is easy for ordinary people to have something physical that they associate with God. The idol is not God - they see God in that idol - big difference. I keep hearing that muslims don't even worship the Prophet Mohammad. Only Allah is worthy of worship. Why do they then get offended when a Koran is stamped on? It is because they see God's word on paper. How is it different to seeing God in a piece of stone? Another misconception is we don't believe in One God. In hinduism, we have Parabrahma - the One God ( Nirakara in sanskrit meaning formless) . All others are manifestations/deputies like Shiva, Vishnu, Lakshmi,etc. The best analogy I can think of is a Government with a PM/President. You have a railways minister, Telecom minister, Finance minister,etc. If you want a railways contract, go to the railways minister appointed by the PM. I know this is a rant but maybe others can chip in on this. I don't think any Indians here in ICF are hardcore religious fundamentalists,etc. It will be interesting to know how they approach religion in their life and what they chose to adopt/discard. Knowing how we treat our religion and its place in our lives will help clear a lot of misconceptions about this secular vs non-secular stuff. I am sure not everyone who is pro-BJP is because they will bring Hindutva or whatever and vice versa
jalebi_bhai Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 I think every religion needs to let go of certain things in their books' date='etc.[b'] Every book is written by a human and over time, they do get corrupted. Even if the letter is preserved by some means, the circumstances change and stone age beliefs have no place in modern world. Here's the thing buddy, Muslims consider the Koran to be the direct word of Allah, Prophet Muhammad being the messenger. There in lies the problem. The word of Allah cannot be scrutinized, according to the Islamic faith.
Kalia_Test Posted January 9, 2015 Author Posted January 9, 2015 Here's the thing buddy' date=' Muslims consider the Koran to be the direct word of Allah, Prophet Muhammad being the messenger. There in lies the problem. The word of Allah cannot be scrutinized, according to the Islamic faith.[/quote'] I know and that is why we have these problems. I am wishing that some muslim scholars can find a clever way out of this by contextualizing and using Quranic verses itself to make them more tolerant and non-violent. Even in Hinduism, Lord Krishna says In Bhagvat Gita ( Song of God) - Sanskrit. sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah Translation - Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear. If hindus take this literally and act like how muslims are doing ( thankfully not in India), then who knows what will happen? They din't for centuries and no reason why muslims can't ignore some verses if they are not applicable to modern society ( as I said with some clever manipulations by muslim scholars)
jalebi_bhai Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 I know and that is why we have these problems. I am wishing that some muslim scholars can find a clever way out of this by contextualizing and using Quranic verses itself to make them more tolerant and non-violent. Even in Hinduism, Lord Krishna says In Bhagvat Gita ( Song of God) - Sanskrit. sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah Translation - Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear. If hindus take this literally and act like how muslims are doing ( thankfully not in India), then who knows what will happen? They din't for centuries and no reason why muslims can't ignore some verses if they are not applicable to modern society ( as I said with some clever manipulations by muslim scholars) Yes, I love the flexibility of thought in Hinduism. There is always room for revisionism. It is sad that a few unsavory practices crept into Hinduism over history, but we are seeing these slowly get weeded out, which is very encouraging.
Shivaji bhonsle Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 How come all the seculars in the world are either Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Jews or Sikhs ? How come you don't meet a secular Muslim in real world or in the virtual world? I want to see even Muslims become seculars. When will this happen? I don't know. I don't know. I want to see Muslim majority countries becoming secular countries. What a great moment that would be for mankind.
Kalia_Test Posted January 9, 2015 Author Posted January 9, 2015 How come all the seculars in the world are either Hindus' date=' Christians, Buddhists, Jews or Sikhs ? How come you don't meet a secular Muslim in real world or in the virtual world? I want to see even Muslims become seculars. When will this happen? I don't know. I don't know. I want to see Muslim majority countries becoming secular countries. What a great moment that would be for mankind.[/quote'] Turkey is secular and dare I say a very successful one
Kalia_Test Posted January 9, 2015 Author Posted January 9, 2015 Yes, I love the flexibility of thought in Hinduism. There is always room for revisionism. It is sad that a few unsavory practices crept into Hinduism over history, but we are seeing these slowly get weeded out, which is very encouraging. Sati practice. I am not sure which hindu text even advocated it. Must be some cultural thing that people equated with hindusm. Even if it was some minority hindu practice, it was weeded out by ourselves through Raja Ram mohan Roy + liberals from Britishers. It was not in keeping with times and we discarded it.
Shivaji bhonsle Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 Turkey is secular and dare I say a very successful one I know someone would say this. Turkish people don't take their religion seriously which means they don't pray 5 times a day just like Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs and Jews.
Shivaji bhonsle Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 Sati practice. I am not sure which hindu text even advocated it. Must be some cultural thing that people equated with hindusm. Even if it was some minority hindu practice, it was weeded out by ourselves through Raja Ram mohan Roy + liberals from Britishers. It was not in keeping with times and we discarded it. sati practice is overrated. Sati was performed mostly by rajputs in Rajasthan. Not all the castes advocated Sati.
Kalia_Test Posted January 9, 2015 Author Posted January 9, 2015 sati practice is overrated. Sati was performed mostly by rajputs in Rajasthan. Not all the castes advocated Sati. You are confusing Sati with Jauhar which was practiced by Rajput women...from my memory ( so pardon me if I am wrong) :- Sati - Wife dying when husband dies Jauhar - Rajput women immolating themselves when their Rajput warrior husbands died in war to avoid being raped by muslim invaders. They would not immolate themselves if their husbands died normally in non-war scenarios.
jalebi_bhai Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 Sati practice. I am not sure which hindu text even advocated it. Must be some cultural thing that people equated with hindusm. Even if it was some minority hindu practice, it was weeded out by ourselves through Raja Ram mohan Roy + liberals from Britishers. It was not in keeping with times and we discarded it. True. Dowry system is also waning out. The Chaturvarna system needs to start losing relevance. It is still somewhat in place in many parts of rural India.
Shivaji bhonsle Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 You are confusing Sati with Jauhar which was practiced by Rajput women...from my memory ( so pardon me if I am wrong) :- Sati - Wife dying when husband dies Jauhar - Rajput women immolating themselves when their Rajput warrior husbands died in war to avoid being raped by muslim invaders. They would not immolate themselves if their husbands died normally in non-war scenarios. you are partly correct, bro. I know about Jauhar because I'm a Rajput myself and I am aware of it. Even the Sati practice was done mainly in Rajasthan and Rajputs. Few reliable records exist of the practice before the time of the Gupta empire, approximately 400 CE. After about this time, instances of sati began to be marked by inscribed memorial stones. According to Axel Michaels, the first clear proof of the practice is from Nepal in 464 CE, and in India from 510 CE.[7] In India, the earliest of these memorial stones are found in Sagar, Madhya Pradesh, though the largest collections date from several centuries later, and are found in Rajasthan. These stones, called devli, or sati-stones, became shrines to the dead woman, who was treated as an object of reverence and worship. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)
Kalia_Test Posted January 9, 2015 Author Posted January 9, 2015 I know someone would say this. Turkish people don't take their religion seriously which means they don't pray 5 times a day just like Hindus' date=' Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs and Jews.[/quote'] Good on them. :two_thumbs_up: I planned trip to Istanbul 2 times but had to cancel one time due to emergency work. The other time I got a good deal to Switzerland and I swapped. With things being the way they are now, I will not want to go to even Istanbul now. Am thinking of some weird trip like Nepal or Bhutan :hmmm:
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