Whats with this BS of Pakistan "always" producing good fast bowlers?

[adi B]

Main side. All 3 can hit 150kph if you didn't notice.

No they dont,ehsan adil and sohail are rank trundlers around 133-137 k avg speed,rahat surprisingly bowled a bit quicker in this wc at 140 k but his record aint impressive at all in his short career.only wahab can get into this indian side as of now,we need to see how junaid and amir do after their comeback. I think india's pace bowling resource is pretty healthy with shami,yadav,bhuvi,aaron.don't read too much from the recently concluded test series in aus,those were absolute pattas where even the best Australiam bowlers avged 35+

[riya]

Asif was real class..Shame that he has no shame..

[adi B]

I think fazal,imran,wasim,waqar,shoaib and asif were the best fast bowlers produced by pak in terms of quality

[riasat]

I agree somewhat with OP.... Waqar Wasim Shoib Imran and Aamir were greats for Pakistan... That is how many genuinely good fast bowlers Pakistan has produced in the last 25 years.... Now compare that to Australia or South Africa... Even the guys(fast bowlers) at the bench for Australia and SA would easily make it to the Pakistan starting line up any day of any year. Pat Cummins or Abbott is better than Sohail Khan or Ehsan Aadil... Heck even Cummins would do better than Wahab in most days of the week. But they do deserve credit for being the innovators of reverse swing.

[vijay50]

I agree somewhat with OP.... Waqar Wasim Shoib Imran and Aamir were greats for Pakistan... That is how many genuinely good fast bowlers Pakistan has produced in the last 25 years.... Now compare that to Australia or South Africa... Even the guys(fast bowlers) at the bench for Australia and SA would easily make it to the Pakistan starting line up any day of any year. Pat Cummins or Abbott is better than Sohail Khan or Ehsan Aadil... Heck even Cummins would do better than Wahab in most days of the week. But they do deserve credit for being the innovators of reverse swing.

Not yet. Beastly thread by Sreeni Mama.:two_thumbs_up::two_thumbs_up:

[cric_fan]

It's a theory that gets thrown around quite a bit, but a simple peel through the layer shows it's not grounded on reality. Yes they do produce fast bowlers, but those sizzle for a very small time and then burn out as quickly as they came. In Pakistan's history, apart from the two Ws and then Imran Khan (who became for all purposes a trundler), there have been hardly any pace bowler who for a sustained period (over 10 years) dominated the bowling charts. There is one Mr Akhtar, who made dough when the Ws did well, but once they left, became a parody of himself. Take test kirkut. Out of the top 10 greatest wickettakers, 5 of them are spinners, occupying a continuous line from 4 to 8. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;team=7;template=results;type=bowling Apart from Ws and Imran, there is not a single pace bowler who has taken over 180 test wickets. Someone like Umar Gul occupying the 12th spot in list of all time highest wicket takers with an average of over 34 doesn't exactly speak volumes of a "never ending pipeline" of pace bowlers, or does it?

:hysterical: Cry!!

[Ultimate_Game]

Imran, Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib were the main Pak pacers and it helped that 3 of them (Wasim, Waqar & Shoaib) played at the same time. After these 4 there's a drop off as the next level wasn't that great. I'm not taking Asif into account as he only played 23 tests which is too small a sample to nominate someone a "great".

[imran666]

just for sake of some indians who cant stand it to see pakistan good at someting ..pakiistan is the worst team to walk on this planet ...all there victors aganist india were flukes ...IPL indian bowlers r way better then any bowler pakistan ever produced ...i hope this makes u feel better ..stay happy ..peace

[jonas10]

Ah sorry dude, I misread it. I understand now. Well I am Precambrian. Not Lara Ponting Crowe. They might have their opinions, I have mine, thank you. In any case, they aren't gods, Why would I be bloody worried about what Crowe thinks or picks? Had it been Shami who delivered that spell to Watson, he might have picked Shami who knows? When Ishant delivered that golden spell to Ponting in the 2007-2008 series, he was touted as one of the world's best Perceptions dude. If selecting peeps were so easy, why not just outsource it to Ponting, Crowe and Lara?

Of course you don't care what lara crowe and ponting would say... I mean it doesn't fit you're narrative. Lol good on you for resisting the temptation to say they'd want a 130km bhuvi Kumar over a junaid who castled kohli like no tomorrow. If India had Pak fast bowlers instead of their own we would outright win test matches instead of salivating over a draw. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[kubrickian]

Of course you don't care what lara crowe and ponting would say... I mean it doesn't fit you're narrative. Lol good on you for resisting the temptation to say they'd want a 130km bhuvi Kumar over a junaid who castled kohli like no tomorrow. If India had Pak fast bowlers instead of their own we would outright win test matches instead of salivating over a draw. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Abey dhakkan, its not a comparison between Indian seamers and Pak seamers. Did we ever claim that we are a bowling powerhouse or fast bowling factory or something stupid like that ? The OP's contention is that Pak seamers are not as good as their fans claim. After the two Ws, has there been a single Pak seamer who even took 200 wickets in tests ? So much chest thumping for nothing.

[express bowling]

@ Precambrian You have made many valid points in this thread. The ultimate objective is to produce match-winning players for your country. After the 2 W s ...Pakistan has not produved any pacer who has managed to take more than 200 wickets in tests at an average of less than 30. In a nutshell...no established match winning test level pacers in the last 12 years by Pakistan. There were a few , like Amir and Asif, who had potential. But, inability to convert potential into actual performance is a big failure too.

[Guldozer]

It can maybe also be said that we are 'Andho mein kana raja'. We are the only Asian country that can let alone compete but can also be considered to be better than Australia and South Africa. By the way how many has greats has any team had after 2003? I can only think of Steyn. So does that mean Australia doesn't produce good fast bowlers?

[Temujin Khaghan]

@ Precambrian You have made many valid points in this thread. The ultimate objective is to produce match-winning players for your country. After the 2 W s ...Pakistan has not produved any pacer who has managed to take more than 200 wickets in tests at an average of less than 30. In a nutshell...no established match winning test level pacers in the last 12 years by Pakistan. There were a few , like Amir and Asif, who had potential. But, inability to convert potential into actual performance is a big failure too.

very nice post express

[express bowling]

@ Pakistani fans 1) I don't think the OP is trolling. He is saying that there has not been any Pakistani pacer in the last 12 years who has actually had a good test career . He is talking about the net result over more than a decade. 2) The OP is just talking about tests. 3) He is talking about whole careers...not just a couple of good years. 4) I feel that Pakistan has had more pace bowling talent than our country...atleast till date. But, talent needs to be converted into actual performance. 5) India has not had any good fast bowler at test level after Zaheer. I accept it. The potential that Shami, Aaron or Umesh may have need to be converted into good test careers. Without that it means little. 6) Our failure to produce good test pacers does not automatically make Pakistani pacers good in test matches. 7) Wahab, Amir and Irfan are genuine fast bowlers. The other Pakistani pacers are not. They are mostly fast-medium...like Junaid, Sohail, Ehsan, Rahat, etc.. Please do not call all your pacers fast. Asif was infact very medium pace. Gul's pace is like our Ishant...mostly fast medium with some real fast spells. And... the OP is talking about wicket taking ability and match winning ability at test level. Just cranking high speeds without being a strike bowler is pretty useless. 8) Pakistani pacers have potential. But...you are not able to convert that into effective careers in the last 12 years. That fact must be accepted.

[express bowling]

very nice post express

Thanks bro.

[Marut]

It can maybe also be said that we are 'Andho mein kana raja'. We are the only Asian country that can let alone compete but can also be considered to be better than Australia and South Africa. By the way how many has greats has any team had after 2003? I can only think of Steyn. So does that mean Australia doesn't produce good fast bowlers?

Australian and SA bowlers bowl more in pace friendly conditions, so we cannot compare SC pacers with these pacers one on one. Australia had just one great pace bowler since the days of Lillee and that is McGrath. Johnson is good when conditions favour bowling but he is a total flop bowling in the SC and England. Starc hasn't done well in the SC too. R.Harris is pretty good but he has played just 25 odd matches in 5 years and is not likely to end up as a bowling great. SA has produced two great pacers in Donald and Steyn. Morkel got beaten to a pulp in Australia, India and UAE and got exposed as HomeTrack/Weak team Bully. There isn't much difference between the quality between Pakistani and Indian pacers for the past 10 years. Asif and Amir had more potential than any other Indian pacers, but they self destructed their march to greatness. Umar Gul at a bowling average of 35 is your high wicket taker in tests over the past ten years - this completely exposes lack of bowling depth in the Pakistani ranks.

[thongale]

More based on perceptions than actual performances. These guys again sizzle for a short time but never go on to become sustained performers over a reasonable period, do they? Check out the stats of all Pak bowlers in the last 12 years - i.e since the two Ws left. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmin1=01+Mar+2003;spanval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=bowling The top 2 are spinners, and Umar Gul is no.3 and Mohammad Sami is at no.8! There is not a single pace bowler with sustained success (over 4-5 yrs) and is also clearly evident from the number of matches/wickets they have taken.

Aren't few of them have better averages than Kapil Dev?:finger:

[thongale]

Afridi is the 2nd best spin bowler ever after Murali in ODIs. Also the best ever All-rounder in the 50-over format (as well as T20). Just applying some of your logic.

**** no. Longevity vise, Jayasuriya beats Afridi in every department hands down. Better batsman, umpteen times better fielder, perhaps slighlty inferior bowler, but bowled at death unlike Afridi and better captain. And ge played for 19 seasons.

[thongale]

Mohammad Amir is the only exciting Paki prospect out there, I concede. But he needs to really perform over the next year in domestics to really stake a claim. Dear Pakistanis, understand that we are talking about long term performers, not flash in the pan fly by night operators. If that's the case, we have the likes of Sreesanth who got even the great Kallis dancing in the air.

Asif id long term if he comes back. Verye conomical action, so will have less in juries.

[vijay50]

Aren't few of them have better averages than Kapil Dev?:finger:

If I can speak without numbers, I can also say lungans doesn't have single good bowler in their test history . You don't want to see any argument on first thread with statistics but came here to show a finger like MCGG. If you are good enough counteract Precambrian with cold hard facts. Otherwise feck off.:finger::finger: