KeyboardWarrior Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 above is jf17 and below is mig21 this is f16 totally different designs. F20 lol no sorry...jf17 is from Mig21 based. :haha: And its chinese design, chinese manufacturing, that is why pak are not even allowed to bring repoters to air shows... :cantstop: You missed the whole point of what the experts of International aviations says about JF-17s ? but obviously you have to .... but forget it, what can we expect from "an armchair expert" who knows not much about Aviations. and knows only about Petty issues like who took the picture of jet or not. Lol .... Even a 10 yr old Kid can tell you it has the design of F-20 & F-16s ... :haha: F-20 F-16. JF-17/FC-1 Mig-21 and Still Fact Remains and thre is no doubt about that .... 58%-42% ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 F7 and FC-1 two chinese models from the russian original mig 21, F7 being license produced version of mig 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 ok discuss Wing loading,TWR,ITR,avionics, radar tech and size, fly by wire, ew suite, design and structure, engine, air to air and air to ground role, weapons load, hard points, composites in frame and RCS of jf 17. your junk fighter is junk in all of this, that why it is cheap..no jammers, seekers in EW etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 What is BVR range of jf 17, did it receive bvr and gun integration before FOC oh wait...you guys inducted before IOC 1 haha...such a poor unprofessional airforce. India does not induct without BVR integration, hell India does not IOC 2 for original ASR's, the requirements are moved constantly to be non obsolete and then IOC 2 is given, developed industrial complexes do that, not some screwdriver giri maintenance unit like yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Ghazwa e hind I can smell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 no full FBW in jf 17 paf pilots will be scramming for the controls when IAF pilots will get first lock and shoot while being in the comfort of rich oxygen cockpit of LCA, in the event of a multiple jf17 and some sneaking to wvr combat, lca with its relaxed static stability and pulling 9g+ will come around the back and kick your fc-1 with its air drag airframe and sorry 8g right in its ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 BtW while all this shiznet is going on. Indian SU30 mki,Mig 29kub/UPG,PakFA,Rafales or AMCA will not even come up as LCA/m2k's would be sufficient for junk fighter 17 or your f16 block 15's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 no full FBW in jf 17 paf pilots will be scramming for the controls when IAF pilots will get first lock and shoot while being in the comfort of rich oxygen cockpit of LCA' date=' in the event of a multiple jf17 and some sneaking to wvr combat, lca with its relaxed static stability and pulling 9g+ will come around the back and kick your fc-1 with its air drag airframe and sorry 8g right in its ****.[/quote'] Based on your description, JF-17 appears to be a flying coffin in the battlefield! So why is PAF inducting such technology? My assumption is: a) Cost effective / cosmetic up-gradation of its potentially aging fleet b) Banking on the nuke threat to save itself (vs. actually winning on the battlefield and caring for its soldiers, pilots, etc. by providing them with equipment that can give them an advantage) It is as if they think that no-one is going to attack them on a large-scale because of the nukes (and they have no major natural resources as well), so why bother investing in high tech stuff. If the pilots get shot down so be it, we would be safe in Rawalpindi :cantstop: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 BtW Iran is going to get some PakFA's too...twin front **** kicking...:cantstop: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Based on your description, JF-17 appears to be a flying coffin in the battlefield! So why is PAF inducting such technology? My assumption is: a) Cost effective / cosmetic up-gradation of its potentially aging fleet b) Banking on the nuke threat to save itself (vs. actually winning on the battlefield and caring for its soldiers, pilots, etc. by providing them with equipment that can give them an advantage) It is as if they think that no-one is going to attack them on a large-scale because of the nukes (and they have no major natural resources as well), so why bother investing in high tech stuff. If the pilots get shot down so be it, we would be safe in Rawalpindi :cantstop: quantity has a quality of its own, they want air worthiness and want low cost. So most of components were off the shelf not money spent of R&D so cheaper. JF17 is a very good present day fighter, but would do jack **** in the Indian high radar density front. They will have AESA in block 3 and does have a good BVR missile, but in reality battle field scenario's can not be decided, JF17 would have to go up against any IAF inventory it could be a lowly jaguar which would be childs play for JF17 or it could be a LCA or SU30/MIG29UPG or even a PAKFA. I think JF17 gives paf the ability to patroll have a good numbers fighter in cheap price, they will negotiate engines from Russia directly now instead of having it through China. But in reality Ind Pak might not fight an other war, i think it can only be Ind-China-US war if ever there was one, Pak is a minor player now no Ind-Pak war's they are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 But i read some where PAF is negotiating J-31 from China if Chinese develpp J-31 before Indians develop FGFA/AMCA and also manage to transfer some to PAF then there could be advanced capabiltiy in PAF the like when they had advanced f-86 sabre while we had our lowly Gnat's in 1960's but they still lost. Paf might get J10 from Chinese those are diff beast, would be a match to LCA/m2k's and Mig 29UPG/KUB. J-10 is based on israeli lavi design, and would be more potent that the 15 odd f-16 block 52 that PAF has today, that would be pretty powerful and can challenge Indian SU30 or Rafales too. May be our keboardbot can tell us more about J-10 and J-31 for PAF, i feel bad for beatng him up like the fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 j-10 J-31 one of the two prototypes not sure about its development stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 ^ I haven't seen the specs but J-10 looks promising :top: KBW Miyan, inki story bolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 ok Chinese source. JF-17 is 3rd generation export model. Read the article. http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20150506000135&cid=1101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 F7 and FC-1 two chinese models from the russian original mig 21, F7 being license produced version of mig 21 Yup, F-7 is similar to Mig-21. But Mig-21 is 3rd Gen fighter, so you mean to say that people are buying JF-17 to replace 3rd Gen fighter with another 3rd Gen fighter, what a nonsense. Tell me? Mig-21 has a Radar of Range Equal or Greater than 105-110 Km ? Mig-21 equipped with EW, RWR, MAW? Mig 21 fully a Fly by Wire? Mig 21 Equipped with IFR ? Mig 21 equipped with Targeting Pods ? Can Mig 21 Fire an Effective BVR Missile ? can Mig 21 Fire a Carrier Killer Missile ? can Mig 21 use Sead ? Mig 21 has DSI intakes ? Mig 21 has FCS systems ? Look at my previous post and Blueprints of these Jets. ok discuss Wing loading' date='TWR,ITR,avionics, radar tech and size, fly by wire, ew suite, design and structure, engine, air to air and air to ground role, weapons load, hard points, composites in frame and RCS of jf 17. your junk fighter is junk in all of this, that why it is cheap..no jammers, seekers in EW etc[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 ok Chinese source. JF-17 is 3rd generation export model. Read the article. http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20150506000135&cid=1101 Bro, You are clearly not a Defence Student or Expert. I have shared the link of AINtv and other Defence Web sources where the Experts says its a New Gen Modern AirCraft. But you Ignored all the links. Fair Enough. Let me burst your bubble. wantchinatimes is a tabloid. Its not Credible at all. Especially on Defence related Issues. Its like a dailymail of China. in some case worst thn that. If you think its a credible source and Gospel for you, thn i will share with you something from same Wantchinatimes. Read this: http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20150626000058&cid=1101 This article says; Pakistan to buy a Chinese Jin-class Type 094 nuclear powered ballistic missile submarines. (which every one denies it, Including Chinese and Pakistani Officials) the same article says: Pakistan and Russia reach the deals on the Pantsyr-S1 short to medium range surface-to-air missile and anti-aircraft artillery weapon system, and 9K37 Buk Grizzly missile system. (again, First of all Russia wont sell this to Pakistan becoz India has it. Secondly, we dont have a budget to buy this SAM system. and lastly, Russians and Pakistani officials denies this news) Now, what wantchinatimes do mostly in thre articles, they take 4 or 5 different news or rumors from different Defence forums and make it up as article for thre website. you will find loop holes in every article on Wantchinatimes. the article you mention about JF-17 , have the same pattern, what they did in the end, they Conclude everything thir own way and gve a verdict. Obviously No research needed for that. If you still dont belive me thn post a Defence related article from Wantchinatimes in any Defence forums (including, India, Pakistan, Chinese or US) and you will have ur answer in couple of mins. Becoz Chinese, pakistanis, Indians and others dont take this as credible Source. Everyone will take the words of International aviation experts on JF-17 Instead of this tabloid ... Heck, People dont belive on BBC these days and you want me to belive on a tabloid.... :hysterical: and, as G_B_ says, only time will tell .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 This thread is like a WWI situation with soldiers fighting in trenches and making negligible advances. I have a solution, JF-17 is: 3rd gen for Ind and China 4th gen for Pak :woot: PS does 3.5 work? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 ^ Take it as whatever you want bro, its a free world ..... :cantstop: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Bhai Vilander is looking for a war in this thread, and i am trying to avoid ... :--D He is always like that, Instead try to focus on topic, he is looking for Wargaming and A vs B etc etc .... :phehehe: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 From all the rant i get one thing, Jf-17 the 3rd gen fighter is what pak has for the near future, no J-10 but they would try to get j-31. China has to get -31 right first. Looks like India should not spend on Rafale after all, pretty clear. If China Develops j-31/J-20 India needs AMCA/Pak FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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