Dale Steyn fastest to 400 Test wickets

[Precambrian]

That is because of the lack of good bowlers nowadays. However other bowlers under-performing does not impact Steyn's performance at all.

That's a circular argument. Lets agree to disagree.

[Marut]

Top five all time for sure. Likely to make it to top three when he retires.

[Marut]

That is because of the lack of good bowlers nowadays. However other bowlers under-performing does not impact Steyn's performance at all.

Steyn's averages are surreal but his averages partly owe their existence to two factors 1) Steyn plays a lot in pace friendly conditions at home - if home pitches are friendly good bowlers inevitably end up with great figures 2) Batsmen of today aren't as good at handling swing and seam as the previous generations because they are brought up on a diet of flat pitches and great bowlers like Steyn can utilize this weakness. Without these factors Steyn could stake a claim for the greatest bowler ever. But bowlers like Marshall were bowling to batsmen who were technically sounder who wouldn't start falling like nine pins the moment the word "swing" is uttered ( for example, see how Australian batsmen batted in the third test).

[Precambrian]

Steyn's averages are surreal but his averages partly owe their existence to two factors 1) Steyn plays a lot in pace friendly conditions at home - if home pitches are friendly good bowlers inevitably end up with great figures 2) Batsmen of today aren't as good at handling swing and seam as the previous generations because they are brought up on a diet of flat pitches and great bowlers like Steyn can utilize this weakness. Without these factors Steyn could stake a claim for the greatest bowler ever. But bowlers like Marshall were bowling to batsmen who were technically sounder who wouldn't start falling like nine pins the moment the word "swing" is uttered ( for example' date=' see how Australian batsmen batted in the third test).[/quote'] What explains his surreal subcontinental numbers? 90 wickets @ 22,33 @ SR of 39. ' Anderson - who is considered one of the best swing bowlers currently averages 32, Johnson averages 40+.

[rkt.india]

Steyn's averages are surreal but his averages partly owe their existence to two factors 1) Steyn plays a lot in pace friendly conditions at home - if home pitches are friendly good bowlers inevitably end up with great figures 2) Batsmen of today aren't as good at handling swing and seam as the previous generations because they are brought up on a diet of flat pitches and great bowlers like Steyn can utilize this weakness. Without these factors Steyn could stake a claim for the greatest bowler ever. But bowlers like Marshall were bowling to batsmen who were technically sounder who wouldn't start falling like nine pins the moment the word "swing" is uttered ( for example' date=' see how Australian batsmen batted in the third test).[/quote'] So, teams never got out to low scores in the past?

[HippoSucks]

What explains his surreal subcontinental numbers? 90 wickets @ 22,33 @ SR of 39. ' Anderson - who is considered one of the best swing bowlers currently averages 32, Johnson averages 40+.

He isn't saying that Steyn succeeds only in pitches suited for fast bowling. However having South Africa or Australia as your home country definitely helps even if you have done very well on subcontinental pitches.

[Precambrian]

He isn't saying that Steyn succeeds only in pitches suited for fast bowling. However having South Africa or Australia as your home country definitely helps even if you have done very well on subcontinental pitches.

my point is there is nothing in his record that suggests that had he played most of his cricket in the SC he'd have struggled. theoretically, based on his stats, he'd have actually slightly bettered his figures by now.

[rkt.india]

Steyn is an ATG. He has gears in his pocket and bowls according to situation. He will look for swing early on and if it is not there, he changes gear and increased pace by 2 yards and then there is reverse, he becomes lethal. He isnt a one trick pony. He can get you out on an away swinger, can bounce you out and can get you caught LBW or clean bowl you with an inswing with old ball.

[Marut]

What explains his surreal subcontinental numbers? 90 wickets @ 22,33 @ SR of 39. ' Anderson - who is considered one of the best swing bowlers currently averages 32, Johnson averages 40+.

Having SC as your home and bowling here occasionally are different things. Steyn is better than Anderson and Johnson, no doubt. But Steyn doesn't have great records every where - he averages 28,32 and 33 in Australia, England and UAE. Any genuine pacer who plays a lot in the SC risks sustaining serious long term injuries that could prematurely end the bowler's career. Among the top pace bowlers who have taken more than 200 wickets, only six out of forty six are from the SC - every other top pacer is from outside SC. SC is extremely harsh on pace bowlers and surviving 50 test match as a pace bowler is itself a huge achievement. Only six pacers from the SC has lasted 50 test matches!!

[India-KXIP fan]

McGrath is the GOAT. Wickets + plenty of pressure leading to more wickets at the other end because of his extremely low economy. Upper hand on many great batsmen of his time. Kept his form for most of the later part of his career also. Still Steyn greatest of his era. Him and McGrath both performed very well in SC.

[Precambrian]

Having SC as your home and bowling here occasionally are different things. Steyn is better than Anderson and Johnson' date=' no doubt. But Steyn doesn't have great records every where - he averages 28,32 and 33 in Australia, England and UAE. Any genuine pacer who plays a lot in the SC risks sustaining serious long term injuries that could prematurely end the bowler's career. Among the top pace bowlers who have taken more than 200 wickets, only six out of forty six are from the SC - every other top pacer is from outside SC. SC is extremely harsh on pace bowlers and surviving 50 test match as a pace bowler is itself a huge achievement. Only six pacers from the SC has lasted 50 test matches!![/quote'] Lol UAE. :hysterical: Long term injuries occur to everyone not just SC pacers. Srinath Kapil Dev Imran Khan Wasim Akram Waqar younis all played long term on SC grounds and went on to have distiguished careers. So that argument is stupid. Everyone has their weaknesses, what did McGrath average in India ? Or in the subcontinent? What did Lilee average? Ambrose didn't play in India from memory, Steyn played and returned unbelievable numbers in the subcontinent despite being a vistor. That counts for a lot.

[Scarves]

McGrath averaged 21.30 - 33 wickets in 16 innings 19 in England 31 in Pakistan but that was 1998 29 in SL but lasted played in 2002 since he was injured for the 2004 series 7.40 in UAE 20.70 In Windies in Subcontient - 23 with 72 wickets Geez he was crazy.

[HippoSucks]

Lol UAE. :hysterical: Long term injuries occur to everyone not just SC pacers. Srinath Kapil Dev Imran Khan Wasim Akram Waqar younis all played long term on SC grounds and went on to have distiguished careers. So that argument is stupid. Everyone has their weaknesses, what did McGrath average in India ? Or in the subcontinent? What did Lilee average? Ambrose didn't play in India from memory, Steyn played and returned unbelievable numbers in the subcontinent despite being a vistor. That counts for a lot.

That just shows that those bowlers should be rated higher because their home was in the subcontinent. Playing 11 matches in the subcontinent (excluding Bangladesh) requires a lot less effort then playing over half your matches in the subcontinent (which is what happens if your home is in the SC). Lillee played 4 matches in the subcontinent so you can not judge him from those records. Ambrose averages 22.5 in the subcontinent over 5 matches.

[adi B]

Having SC as your home and bowling here occasionally are different things. Steyn is better than Anderson and Johnson' date=' no doubt. But Steyn doesn't have great records every where - he averages 28,32 and 33 in Australia, England and UAE. Any genuine pacer who plays a lot in the SC risks sustaining serious long term injuries that could prematurely end the bowler's career. Among the top pace bowlers who have taken more than 200 wickets, only six out of forty six are from the SC - every other top pacer is from outside SC. SC is extremely harsh on pace bowlers and surviving 50 test match as a pace bowler is itself a huge achievement. Only six pacers from the SC has lasted 50 test matches!![/quote'] Avg of 33 on those pattas in uae is a damn good average and 28 in aus is also very good considering how flat Adelaide and gabba were when he toured in2012.his average in England is not giod and that is baffling because he's one bowler who you'd expect to average 25 ish in England. Rest ,anywhere his average are magnificent

[div]

Having SC as your home and bowling here occasionally are different things. Steyn is better than Anderson and Johnson' date=' no doubt. But Steyn doesn't have great records every where - he averages 28,32 and 33 in Australia, England and UAE. Any genuine pacer who plays a lot in the SC risks sustaining serious long term injuries that could prematurely end the bowler's career. Among the top pace bowlers who have taken more than 200 wickets, only six out of forty six are from the SC - every other top pacer is from outside SC. SC is extremely harsh on pace bowlers and surviving 50 test match as a pace bowler is itself a huge achievement. Only six pacers from the SC has lasted 50 test matches!![/quote'] If we go by your logic,South African batsmen are better than Sachins and Dravids and Stuart MacGill is better spinner than Anil Kumble.

[div]

Steyn's averages are surreal but his averages partly owe their existence to two factors 1) Steyn plays a lot in pace friendly conditions at home - if home pitches are friendly good bowlers inevitably end up with great figures 2) Batsmen of today aren't as good at handling swing and seam as the previous generations because they are brought up on a diet of flat pitches and great bowlers like Steyn can utilize this weakness. Without these factors Steyn could stake a claim for the greatest bowler ever. But bowlers like Marshall were bowling to batsmen who were technically sounder who wouldn't start falling like nine pins the moment the word "swing" is uttered ( for example' date=' see how Australian batsmen batted in the third test).[/quote'] 1983 world cup final Indian trundlers Vs Great Windies batsmen on a green pitch http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/65090.html

[HippoSucks]

If we go by your logic' date='South African batsmen are better than Sachins and Dravids and Stuart MacGill is better spinner than Anil Kumble.[/quote'] Wrong logic because for SC batsman, South African or Australian conditions are more difficult while for South African or Australian batsman, SC conditions are more difficult. For batsman the conditions to which they are not used to are more difficult, so it evens out. However for South African or Australian fast bowlers, SC conditions are more difficult but for SC fast bowlers, South African or Australian conditions are easier. The argument for spinners does apply to some extent as well though.

[rkt.india]

Avg of 33 on those pattas in uae is a damn good average and 28 in aus is also very good considering how flat Adelaide and gabba were when he toured in2012.his average in England is not giod and that is baffling because he's one bowler who you'd expect to average 25 ish in England. Rest ,anywhere his average are magnificent

England have blunted Steyn by churning out complete slow dry pitches every time SA go there. They won't make green pitches like last year against for SA.

[div]

Wrong logic because for SC batsman, South African or Australian conditions are more difficult while for South African or Australian batsman, SC conditions are more difficult. For batsman the conditions to which they are not used to are more difficult, so it evens out. However for South African or Australian fast bowlers, SC conditions are more difficult but for SC fast bowlers, South African or Australian conditions are easier. The argument for spinners does apply to some extent as well though.

Pace bowlers generally have better strike rate and average than spinners,which means playing pace is tougher task..Don't you think SA batsmen who play more matches in pacer friendly are better than their Indian counterparts. :hmmm:

[Marut]

If we go by your logic' date='South African batsmen are better than Sachins and Dravids and Stuart MacGill is better spinner than Anil Kumble.[/quote'] For a SA batsman, it is technically more challenging compared to SC batsmen (but many SC wickets also demand technical excellence against spin so this aspect is neutralized). But pace bowling is physically lot more demanding on both lifeless surfaces as well as dust bowls - if you keep playing on these wickets you are going to lose all interest for pace bowling. So comparison with batsmen is somewhat out of place.