Pace and Hype

[renjith]

How much speed can be judged by viewing a video is debatable.

One method is to judge by carry to the keeper. In that competition there was no keeper and no way to judge speed by carry.

Camera angle has an impact on the viewers perception of speed. The camera angle used in that competition is completely different to what we see in live matches these days.

Also the ball look different. Is that a normal leather ball used in test matches. Can someone comment?

Holding's fastest ball was measured as 141 kph on a non-match situation!!! Hard to believe.

 

I have seen lots of holding's bowling videos were he looks much quicker visually.

[Singh bling]

Just look at the low speeds of the 1998 competition when the speedguns used were the same as now

Devon Malcolm, who many of the batsmen of that era  claimed was one of the quickest they have faced, clocked a fastest of 141.6 k.

Source : espncricinfo 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283875.html

 

1998 Competition

A fastest bowler competition was held at the testimonial match for Courtney Walsh on July 20, 1998.

 

Player	Kph	Notes
Devon Malcolm	141.6	winner
Franklyn Rose	141.6
Andy Caddick	140.0
Nixon McLean	138.4
Ed Giddins	138.4
Courtney Walsh	133.5
Ian Bishop	133.5
David Lawrence	125.5

 

Waqar , Wasim , Donald , Akhtar Mc grath or even Srinath  none of these were part of that competition , so unlike 1979 this was not taken seriously, also the above speeds make it that these fast bowling competitons are joke . Just check the speeds I posted , Rose was measured 146.4 in 2000

[Singh bling]

I hope singh Bling has atleast seen the video of the 79 bowling competition. Please check the video, and if any of those bowlers look like bowling express or even over 140 to you, then lets talk! 

I have seen it several times , there is no way a person can judge speed with naked eye just by watching video. recently I was watching England vs SA and Finn threw a nasty bouncer . I thought must be above 140ks , but speed gun showed it 128 k

[Rightarmfast]

Waqar , Wasim , Donald , Akhtar Mc grath or even Srinath  none of these were part of that competition , so unlike 1979 this was not taken seriously, also the above speeds make it that these fast bowling competitons are joke . Just check the speeds I posted , Rose was measured 146.4 in 2000

This did not include all the bowlers does not mean that it was a speed competition. I remember this competition and it was just around the carribean players mostly. 

Also, you can't give an accurate judgement of the speed by naked eye, however you still can make out the difference.

[Singh bling]

This did not include all the bowlers does not mean that it was a speed competition. I remember this competition and it was just around the carribean players mostly. 

Also, you can't give an accurate judgement of the speed by naked eye, however you still can make out the difference.

Ok here i found something interesting

http://www.oocities.org/jackie_hewitt_uk/tmatch.html

Fastest Bowler in the World Competition

Although obviously not every current fast bowler in the world was able to take part in this event, there were 9 taking part, including Courtney himself. Sadly neither Allan Donald or Curtly Ambrose were avaliable, but never the less, it was a fine display of fast bowling by some of the best.

The participants were allowed to loosen up with a few deliveries first, then they bowled in pairs (and one threesome) with 3 deliveries each.

Results as follows, with the three recorded speeds after the bowlers name.

Pair One
Franklyn Rose- 86/88/88
Ed Giddins- 83/85/86

Pair Two
Nixon McLean- 85/86/86
Devon Malcolm- 88/86/88

Pair Three 
Andy Caddick- 84/86/87
Javagal Srinath- 74/75/76

The Threesome
Ian Bishop- 79/82/83
David "Sid" Lawrence- 79/77/78
Courtney Walsh- 80/81/81/83

OK- Courtney did have 4 deliveries, but it was his day, so no-one minded. He then also had a 5th delivery- with an apple! Which broke into many pieces on hitting the ground. Pity it wasn't an orange as then Courtney could have bowled a jaffa. (Sorry)

The Final 
As both Devon Malcolm and Franklyn Rose achieved speeds of 88mph, they each had two deliveries to decide the winner
Devon Malcolm- 86/88
Franklyn Rose- 86/86

So Englands Devon Malcolm was the winner and won a Waterford Crystal Bowl worth 750.00 for his efforts.

Srinath  participated and was clocking barely 122 kph, so now please accept that Srinath was 120kph bowler  

[renjith]

 

Ok here i found something interesting

http://www.oocities.org/jackie_hewitt_uk/tmatch.html

Srinath  participated and was clocking barely 122 kph, so now please accept that Srinath was 120kph bowler  

What was the method used in 1999? Was it release speed or speed at the other end. In 1979, thomson in his interview had said that it was speed at the batsmens end. So normally one can add 5kph (guess) to the speeds of 1979 competition. Still I believe the accuracy of those devices will be poor compared to the ones being used now.

[Singh bling]

What was the method used in 1999? Was it release speed or speed at the other end. In 1979, thomson in his interview had said that it was speed at the batsmens end. So normally one can add 5kph (guess) to the speeds of 1979 competition. Still I believe the accuracy of those devices will be poor compared to the ones being used now.

There is not much information about 1998 competition , 1979 is much debated cricket forums , many say it was average speed. 

 

There are many on this forum that are taking them as gospel of truth for speed .My point is that speed in those competition vs speed in matches are different for whatever reason which is not known to us .Serious ly anybody will accept that Dronath was 120 kph bowler?

[express bowling]

Strength is only one of several factors that affect speed. Infact there so many other factors which are much more important tHan strength. And those factors clearly does not change accross generations.

Even if we go by the assumption that current generation players get get better nutrition supplements and training which results in improved strength what amount of speed increase do you expect. Maximum 2 or 3 kmph overall.

When I see many speed comparisons in above posts I get the idea that you guys are talking about around 10 kmph difference. Ie an average pacer today can bowl at 140 where as one from 70s bowled at 130. That is Wat I do not agree.

I am not talking about just strength. Other factors have been scientifically and systematically improved too. Like flexibility, stamina and endurance, using biomechanics to improve bowling techniques etc. 

I repeat....I am not saying that today's bowlers are 10 k quicker because I don't have any data to make such an assumption. I am not quantifying..

Just saying that .....as in almost all sports which involve speed, power, time, distance etc.   bowling speeds must have improved somewhat on an average over 35 to 40 years.

Just look how much fielding in cricket has improved over this time frame...due to better fitness, speed, flexibility, stamina, reach and technique. Why would bowling speed not benefit from the same ?

[express bowling]

Waqar , Wasim , Donald , Akhtar Mc grath or even Srinath  none of these were part of that competition , so unlike 1979 this was not taken seriously, also the above speeds make it that these fast bowling competitons are joke . Just check the speeds I posted , Rose was measured 146.4 in 2000

Rose may have bowled a s delivery at 146 k a couple of years later....happens so often. There are even wider variations between speeds of bowlers even within the same test match , in different innings or spells.

Umesh Yadav clocked a fastest of 150.4 k in the first innings of the last SA test match. In his second innings, his fastest was 145 k.   It is so normal.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2016 by express bowling

[express bowling]

 

Ok here i found something interesting

http://www.oocities.org/jackie_hewitt_uk/tmatch.html

Srinath  participated and was clocking barely 122 kph, so now please accept that Srinath was 120kph bowler  

Firstly...you seem to be Indian. Then why are you so happy that some foreigner has tried to portray Srinath as a 119 k to 122 k bowler in that website ?        

Secondly...Srinath clocking 119 k and 122 k is so ridiculous...even his slower deliveries were often quicker than that ....that it proves that there has been a misprint, either intentional or unintentional, in that website.

Thirdly...Devon Malcolm and F.  Rose clocking 141 k on a particular day seems quite plausible to me. Even an old Walsh clocking a fastest of 133 k.  

[express bowling]

What was the method used in 1999? Was it release speed or speed at the other end. In 1979, thomson in his interview had said that it was speed at the batsmens end. So normally one can add 5kph (guess) to the speeds of 1979 competition. Still I believe the accuracy of those devices will be poor compared to the ones being used now.

As far as I know...all speeds measured from 1975 onwards have been release speeds.  I had posted a video earlier in this thread when scientists were comparing the speeds of Akhtar with Thomson etc. and talking about the bowling competitions of the "70s.  If they were not comparable then scientists would not compare.

Upon reaching the batsman...speed reduces in the range of 15 %   to  30 % depending on the type of pitch. whether the ball has landed on the seam, what the wind speed is and wind direction is, whether any underspin has been imparted by the pacer etc etc.

Those speeds could not have been at the batsman's end. That means Thomson had a release speed of  174 k even if we consider a 15 % reduction and  211 k if we consider a 30 % reduction . That too at a time when he was bowling slower after injury       

The reduction is roughly between 10 %  to  20 % if we consider reduction after pitching.

 

[express bowling]

There is not much information about 1998 competition , 1979 is much debated cricket forums , many say it was average speed. 

 

There are many on this forum that are taking them as gospel of truth for speed .My point is that speed in those competition vs speed in matches are different for whatever reason which is not known to us .Serious ly anybody will accept that Dronath was 120 kph bowler?

I am not taking the 1979 competition as the only indication of bowling speeds of that era.  Among other things, speeds of pacers vary a lot from spell to spell, match to match and year to year. 

I am more interested in the speed ranges  of those bowlers day in and day out in match situations....and we will never know that.

My points are very simple....it is possible that there were 2 or even 3 pacers of that era who bowled really quick. It is always possible to have some freaks of nature.

But, most of  the international pacers of the '70s must have been slower than most of the international pacers nowadays....because of better supplements, nutrition, biomechanics, fitness, strength, stamina etc. etc. ...just like it has happened in other sports involving speed, power, timing, distance etc.

I am not quantifying how slower they were ...because I don't have exact data.

 

 

[Rightarmfast]

I remember the speed competition in 98 and Srinath was not a part of the competition. I wonder how his name is popping up:) But if it makes you happy, then yes, Srinath would have been a 122 bowler :)Then again, he was clocked at 93mph in 99!!!

Singh Bling is not Indian express bowler. I am surprised you didnt realize he is a pakistani member :)

[express bowling]

Singh Bling is not Indian express bowler. I am surprised you didnt realize he is a pakistani member :)

I guess I wrongly assumed from his user name.     

Edited January 11, 2016 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

What was the method used in 1999? Was it release speed or speed at the other end. In 1979, thomson in his interview had said that it was speed at the batsmens end. So normally one can add 5kph (guess) to the speeds of 1979 competition. Still I believe the accuracy of those devices will be poor compared to the ones being used now.

oh bhai. You will have to add at least 20-30 kph if speed is measured at batsman's end. That is Ho much pace ball loses when it reaches batsman.

 

 

 

[Singh bling]

I remember the speed competition in 98 and Srinath was not a part of the competition. I wonder how his name is popping up:) But if it makes you happy, then yes, Srinath would have been a 122 bowler :)Then again, he was clocked at 93mph in 99!!!

Singh Bling is not Indian express bowler. I am surprised you didnt realize he is a pakistani member :)

 

Just read my posts in chit chat or Politics and then realise who I am 

[HippoSucks]

Just look at the low speeds of the 1998 competition when the speedguns used were the same as now

Devon Malcolm, who many of the batsmen of that era  claimed was one of the quickest they have faced, clocked a fastest of 141.6 k.

Source : espncricinfo 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283875.html

 

1998 Competition

A fastest bowler competition was held at the testimonial match for Courtney Walsh on July 20, 1998.

 

Player	Kph	Notes
Devon Malcolm	141.6	winner
Franklyn Rose	141.6
Andy Caddick	140.0
Nixon McLean	138.4
Ed Giddins	138.4
Courtney Walsh	133.5
Ian Bishop	133.5
David Lawrence	125.5

 

That competition was in 1998, when Devon Malcolm was 35 years old and had retired from test cricket 2 years ago. 

Edited January 11, 2016 by HippoSucks

[HippoSucks]

I remember the speed competition in 98 and Srinath was not a part of the competition. I wonder how his name is popping up:) But if it makes you happy, then yes, Srinath would have been a 122 bowler :)Then again, he was clocked at 93mph in 99!!!

Singh Bling is not Indian express bowler. I am surprised you didnt realize he is a pakistani member :)

Srinath's name came up from this competition: http://www.oocities.org/jackie_hewitt_uk/tmatch.html

But I don't understand how this page includes Srinath while he wasn't even part of the competition. 

Edited January 11, 2016 by HippoSucks

[Singh bling]

Firstly...you seem to be Indian. Then why are you so happy that some foreigner has tried to portray Srinath as a 119 k to 122 k bowler in that website ?        

Secondly...Srinath clocking 119 k and 122 k is so ridiculous...even his slower deliveries were often quicker than that ....that it proves that there has been a misprint, either intentional or unintentional, in that website.

Thirdly...Devon Malcolm and F.  Rose clocking 141 k on a particular day seems quite plausible to me. Even an old Walsh clocking a fastest of 133 k.  

Firstly that article has nothing against Srinath , I tried to search net but did not find much information.

Secondly it is you people that are considering fast bowling competition as gospel of truth , even if he bowled at that pace I will say that he was may be in some other kind of mood. For me he was 130-145 kph bowler who may have hit few deliveries few ball around 150 kph , irrespective whether he bowled in that or not I will not downgrade or upgrade him

 

Btw I have attached my speed test result which has my location 

 

Edited January 11, 2016 by Singh bling

[Singh bling]

Srinath's name came up from this competition: http://www.oocities.org/jackie_hewitt_uk/tmatch.html

But I don't understand how this page includes Srinath while he wasn't even part of the competition. 

How you are so sure he wasn't part of it , scorecard of that match show that Srinath played in that

http://www.oocities.org/jackie_hewitt_uk/scard.html