The Outsider Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 A hypothetical example - There is a research scientist job opening at a top university and by some fluke I am among the 2 shortlisted candidates who have been called to give a seminar. My rival is really good but I feel I can "mentally disintegrate" him. So when he is in the middle of his lecture, I ask him, "Hey, how does your thesis advisor's d!ck taste like". After that the university hires me because I managed to mentally unsettle my rival during his talk, never mind that he was more deserving. If modern cricket has to move towards true professionalism, it has to move against amateur and backyard notions like sledging and abusing. That's the mantra of the professional world, the job description is to play cricket and showcase your skills for which you are getting paid, not for treating your fellow professionals with contempt. Sadly, abuse and sledging are robbing us and deflecting attention from a lot of cricket.
Lurker Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 If modern cricket has to move towards true professionalism, it has to move against amateur and backyard notions like sledging and abusing. That's the mantra of the professional world, the job description is to play cricket and showcase your skills for which you are getting paid, not for treating your fellow professionals with contempt. Excellent point and couldnt agree more. Yes it is one thing to sledge a la Kapil Dev/Jimmy Amarnath by picking a Abdul Qadir googly, shouting "googles" and then hitting it for a six. I can see the showmanship in that as also its effect on bowlers. It is completely different thing to say - Are you a homo? What does Brian Lara's d**k tastes like etc. This is NOT sportsmanship by any means. I would probably take it a bit further and say the problem is not only limited to sledging it is with the whole set-up. Today winning seems to be the mantra and the fans are to be blamed for it as well. We would much rather have our team win(as witnessed in ENgland when a rank bad decision saved us a game) than witness a fair result. This is one big reason why athletes today cheat. Heck it is alsmot as if any athlete, cricket or otherwise, who can get away with it doesnt mind using drugs and all those banned substances too. xxx
beetle Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 A hypothetical example - There is a research scientist job opening at a top university and by some fluke I am among the 2 shortlisted candidates who have been called to give a seminar. My rival is really good but I feel I can "mentally disintegrate" him. So when he is in the middle of his lecture, I ask him, "Hey, how does your thesis advisor's d!ck taste like". After that the university hires me because I managed to mentally unsettle my rival during his talk, never mind that he was more deserving. If modern cricket has to move towards true professionalism, it has to move against amateur and backyard notions like sledging and abusing. That's the mantra of the professional world, the job description is to play cricket and showcase your skills for which you are getting paid, not for treating your fellow professionals with contempt. Sadly, abuse and sledging are robbing us and deflecting attention from a lot of cricket. Great post!Time we all started asking for good clean cricket....
Andrew Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 Intimidation. The reason I love cricket is because it is the metaphor for life; some people succeed with elegance, others with gritty determination (a la academia and intelligence, or athleticism and sport); you can play head to head for five days and have no result because of bad weather; you can have no clear winner and a draw; you can have collapses in confidence (a la sub-prime mortgage crisis) etc. etc. I challenge anyone to suggest a sport which in so many ways reflects life. Chandan wrote a fantastic article on sledging which is relevant to this thread: (http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=308179&postcount=12) But I think what we are really talking about is 'intimidation'; sledging is intimidation, no more, no less. It is teasing, it is verbal harassment, it is slander. And this issue is probably the root cause of a major problem around the world; bullying. Bullying in the school, in the workplace, in the home... I do not know what the situation is like in India but in schools around Australia and America (eg: Columbine High School and the trenchcoat mafia) people are struggling to deal with intimidation. It seems odd to allow some let kids tease other kids verbally, then punish the poor bugger who eventually lashes out physically (just as Harbajan lashed out verbally against Symonds). Just as bullying kids learn who they can provoke a reaction out of they Australian's do the same with Harbajan et al. So to me sledging is about intimidation and bullying. Any we have a big problem with it in schools around Australia, and the themes run to the heart of the Australian cricket teams behavior; they are a bunch of intimidating bullies. Simple as that. And so once again the game of test match cricket imitates life.
beetle Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 That's sad. Bullying in school is not that big a problem. At least not a rule. Bullying by teachers is more common.
Andrew Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 Bullying - a huge cultural difference That's sad. Bullying in school is not that big a problem. At least not a rule. Bullying by teachers is more common. That is so interesting. When I think of my Indian friends I think of honest, 'gentle' people (I hope that is not patronizing). Ghandi. Hardly a bully. Maybe the real difference between the two teams is not really the 'spirit of cricket' but the 'culture of bullying' members of both teams have been raised in. When I stop and think of the comments that have infuriated Indians by Australians in Australian chatrooms they are all the words that are linked to the concept of bullying; Dobbing; whinging; whining; take it like men; *****footing etc. etc. I think this is the real difference between the two teams, the two cultures; Australians pride themselves on bullying and bullying, on intimidation. Indian's seem not to.
Online Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 very poor analogy by the OP Mind games are very much a part of cricket. Concentration is one of the key aspects while batting and dismantling the opposition by messing their concentratin is part of the game. Abuses and foul language are not part of the game of course and should be dealt with severely. but banter and gamesmanship must remain to draw people out of their comfort zone.
bunny Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 Great post Shwetabh. I have been wanting to post something similar. What if you are verbally abused repeatedly when you are trying to work? What if your colleague does that? What if it's your boss? What if a rival company manages to do that repeatedly? Will you take it especially when you are working under severe pressure near a deadline? No chance. (and now what if your child sees that you are being constantly abused when you are working? What will he think of you and the party who is abusing you?) What if Ernie Els tries to sledge Tiger Woods? What if Anand tries to sledge Kasparov? And what do you make of Matterazzi/Zidane incident? Enough of copping it and moving on. Stop the nonsense. Or for that matter will sledging continue if the stump mike is turned on? I am sure the cricketers are worried about their image. No chance will they keep on sledging unless they really are fools. Actually we have made a big cry about the whole incident which is well and good. But, BCCI needs to take a stronger stance on sledging and role of technology in assisting umpries. And the sooner it does that the more this whole protest will get credibility (even in the eyes of fans who think BCCI managed to arm twist ICC because of financial power).
Andrew Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 Thank you. Gandhi' date=' if you please.[/quote'] I apologise. Gandhi. (Thanks... I do have a biography on him but read it ten years ago).
Lurker Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 When I stop and think of the comments that have infuriated Indians by Australians in Australian chatrooms they are all the words that are linked to the concept of bullying; I think this is the real difference between the two teams, the two cultures; Australians pride themselves on bullying and bullying, on intimidation. Indian's seem not to. Close enough. I beleive what has also added fuel to fire is the way local Aussie populace have treated India(or most other visiting team). The way it works in India is guests are considered sacrosant to God. This is derived very much from Hindu lexicon where guest were considered a form of visit by God. So what essentially happens is even though Aussie players may not get enough support in the stadium they are lapped by Indian crowd when they step out. It is fair to say a popular Australian cricketer stands to make as much money in India as he does back home. Anytime Australia tour India their past players are mobbed for insights. Heck the last time Aussies toured India Gavin Robertson was writing articles and getting wide coverage. Compare this to what happens when India tours Australia. Indian cricketers hardly get mobbed on the streets(which frankly they wouldnt mind considering their life(or lack of it) in India), Australian media going nuts over Indians, playing all the cr@ppy mind games, Indian greats hardly asked for articles and what have you and suddenly Indian population back home gets miffed. The argument is - Hey if you can not reciprocate our affection atleast dont humiliate us. xxx
bunny Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 Mind games are very much a part of cricket. Concentration is one of the key aspects while batting and dismantling the opposition by messing their concentratin is part of the game. Abuses and foul language are not part of the game of course and should be dealt with severely. but banter and gamesmanship must remain to draw people out of their comfort zone. Mind games have become a part of cricket. Take the example of golf? It requires even more concentration than cricket? Do we see any mind games? (While I am not advocating a complete ban on banter, sledging should be banned and stump mike should be turned on. Then everybody can figure out how the fielders play such mind games).
Andrew Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 Close enough. I beleive what has also added fuel to fire is the way local Aussie populace have treated India(or most other visiting team). The way it works in India is guests are considered sacrosant to God. This is derived very much from Hindu lexicon where guest were considered a form of visit by God. So what essentially happens is even though Aussie players may not get enough support in the stadium they are lapped by Indian crowd when they step out. It is fair to say a popular Australian cricketer stands to make as much money in India as he does back home. Anytime Australia tour India their past players are mobbed for insights. Heck the last time Aussies toured India Gavin Robertson was writing articles and getting wide coverage. Compare this to what happens when India tours Australia. Indian cricketers hardly get mobbed on the streets(which frankly they wouldnt mind considering their life(or lack of it) in India), Australian media going nuts over Indians, playing all the cr@ppy mind games, Indian greats hardly asked for articles and what have you and suddenly Indian population back home gets miffed. The argument is - Hey if you can not reciprocate our affection atleast dont humiliate us. xxx This is the odd part. The Australian cricket team bullies the Indian cricket team, but the Australian crowds have been really respectful to the cricket team; but their respect is not shown the way Indian's show it (eg: mobbing, it just doesn't happen in Australia, only kids tend to mob sporting stars). At the MCG and the SCG, even during the controversies, the Australian crowd was really respectful to the Indian team, lots of them got ovations on their way to and from the pitch despite their score. In truth, I have never seen Australian crowds show so much affection for a touring country as they have shown to this team. The biggest thing most Australian cricket fans care about at the moment and in the lead up to the test was it is probably going to be the last time Sachin Tendulkar tours Australia.
Andrew Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 Completely Completely agree. Mind games have become a part of cricket. Take the example of golf? It requires even more concentration than cricket? Do we see any mind games? (While I am not advocating a complete ban on banter' date=' sledging should be banned and stump mike should be turned on. Then everybody can figure out how the fielders play such mind games).[/quote'] This is the single thing that would improve so many of the toxic aspects of the game. Completely agree with you.
Andrew Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 Ignorant, Inbred, drinking, gambling Ponting. Prime examples of what Lurker is saying are Steve Waugh ' date=' B Lee being cult figures in India ... this goes back to the 1987 WC Final when the Entire Kolkatta Crowd was supporting only the Aussies in that Final.[/quote'] This is what really p*i*s*s*e*s me off. This test series could have done so much to bring these two nations together. Two nations which have so many cultural foundations that are compatible (Commonwealth & cricket). Instead the dumb, small minded, ignorant, uneducated, drinking, gambling, inbred Tasmanian Captain Ricky Ponting has ruined it. I am so so so angry about this. The Indian economy is booming (is Manmohahn Singh still PM?... I liked him a lot) and Australia and India could become so close. Instead this absolute idiot Ricky Ponting is ruining it. I cannot use the words I would like to use on this front.
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