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Imran Khan "Explains" why Pakistan produces fast bowlers

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http://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/videos/?video_id=260131 Stock it up to genetics for the 125km trundlers as per IK. Also apparently if "hill people" were into cricket theyd be smacking 180kms as per Imran's Logic. I find it amazing that the Punjabis on one side of the border can bowl at the speed of sound but after you cross an imaginary line the tuk along at double digits.

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Rubbish. Zak' date=' Srinath, Nehra, Ishant, Sreesanth, Yadav, Aaron all have bowled fast. No one can bowl fast forever.[/quote'] They've all been sharp ... But India have yet to produce a genuine quick ... Someone consistently in the 150+ region such as Lee, Shoaib, Tait, or Thomson.

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They've all been sharp ... But India have yet to produce a genuine quick ... Someone consistently in the 150+ region such as Lee' date=' Shoaib, Tait, or Thomson.[/quote'] yadav did in Australia... I remember 1 over where almost all deliveries were above 150.... I think one was even 157 (if I remember correctly)

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They've all been sharp ... But India have yet to produce a genuine quick ... Someone consistently in the 150+ region such as Lee' date=' Shoaib, Tait, or Thomson.[/quote'] They are express bowlers. How many express bowlers has word produced? 4, 5 or 6 not more than that. Anyone who bowls 140+ or can touch 90 mph is a genuine quick and all of the have done that in their career span.

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Nah nothing was 157 ... He hit 152.5 in an ODI against Sri Lanka and Ishant hit 150+ a couple of times in the Test series ... But the 4 I mentioned above could bowl spells (well tbh I cant speak for Thomson but I am assuming he could too, but I've seen the other 3 do it) where most balls were 150+, not just a random ball.

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They are express bowlers. How many express bowlers has word produced? 4, 5 or 6 not more than that. Anyone who bowls 140+ or can touch 90 mph is a genuine quick and all of the have done that in their career span.
Yeah I know, I'm not disagreeing with you. To be honest, I don't think a 150+ bowler is necessarily more effective than a 140+ bowler but its disappointing given our population that we've never produced one. Australia have produced 3

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Yeah I know' date=' I'm not disagreeing with you. To be honest, I don't think a 150+ bowler is necessarily more effective than a 140+ bowler but its disappointing given our population that we've never produced one. Australia have produced 3[/quote'] every second bowler in Australia clock 140K.

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Nah nothing was 157 ... He hit 152.5 in an ODI against Sri Lanka and Ishant hit 150+ a couple of times in the Test series ... But the 4 I mentioned above could bowl spells (well tbh I cant speak for Thomson but I am assuming he could too' date=' but I've seen the other 3 do it) where most balls were 150+, not just a random ball.[/quote'] Tait never did it in Test matches. Even Lee and Akhtar did it rarely in test matches. I am sure yadav can do that but I have never seen him go all out and it is better not to as it only hurts the body. You dont need to be 150 plus to take wickets.

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Tait never did it in Test matches. Even Lee and Akhtar did it rarely in test matches. I am sure yadav can do that but I have never seen him go all out and it is better not to as it only hurts the body. You dont need to be 150 plus to take wickets.
Have we had any bowler do that in any form of the game?

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In England, South Africa, decent bowlers who can hit good lengths consistently in 140s will be enough! But if you want to get wickets in Australia or subcontinent, you need to hit high 140s and 150 consistently and use some brain! You don't want to bowl bouncers/full lengths all the day! Mix them up and set up the batsman!

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There are bowlers in India who bowl 140+ - Ishant, Umesh Yadav, Varun Aron, Dinda just to name a few. Some others can also clock 140 but they usually cut down on pace and rely on swing. This guy is talking as if Pak produced express fast bowlers by the truckload. Just Akthar. :hehe:

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In England' date=' South Africa, decent bowlers who can hit good lengths consistently in 140s will be enough! But if you want to get wickets in Australia or subcontinent, you need to hit high 140s and 150 consistently and use some brain! You don't want to bowl bouncers/full lengths all the day! Mix them up and set up the batsman![/quote'] In Australia in particular because of the extra bounce. An extra 5-10km/h with steep bounce can often catch batsmen out, particularly those who initially press forward and then struggle to get back.

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Have we had any bowler do that in any form of the game?
It is all good to have 150K plus bowler but rather I would like to have a bowler who can clock 140 and swing the ball, play tests for India and take wickets rather than one who is clocking 155 but rarely plays matches.

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There are bowlers in India who bowl 140+ - Ishant, Umesh Yadav, Varun Aron, Dinda. Some others can also clock 140 but they usually cut down on pace and rely on swing. This guy is talking as if Pak produced express fast bowlers by the truckload. Just Akthar. :hehe:
They've produced one more than us ... And that one happened to be the fastest in history.

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It is all good to have 150K plus bowler but rather I would like to have a bowler who can clock 140 and swing the ball' date=' play tests for India and take wickets rather than one who is clocking 155 but rarely plays matches.[/quote'] Of course ... So would I ... but I was just saying that its dissapointing we dont have someone who can bowl that 150+ pace consistently, given the large population we have.

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^^Not important. We need bowlers who can bowl 140 and get swing like Bhuvaneswar. Ability to swing and having control and bowling 135 is enough to trouble the batsmen provided there is some help for bowlers which is usually the case in Aus, Eng, SA. Bowlers like Ishant who bowl 140+ and cant get movement will find it much harder to pick wickets.

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No role models. We are yet to produce a pacer who has 100+ wickets at a sub 25 average! Maybe if Kapil paaji had burst onto the scene before Sunny Gavaskar did, we may have seen a bowling culture develop in our cricket, alas not to be.

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^^Not important. We need bowlers who can bowl 140 and get swing like Bhuvaneswar. Ability to swing and having control and bowling 135 is enough to trouble the batsmen provided there is some help for bowlers which is usually the case in Aus, Eng, SA. Bowlers like Ishant who bowl 140+ and cant get movement will find it much harder to pick wickets.
Sure! Agree with that. Control and movement are much more important than sheer pace. But sheer pace can also be handy when bowling in a team. I think a lot of fans make the mistake of looking at our bowlers in isolation. As a pack, its always good to have one out and out express quick in the team.

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No role models. We are yet to produce a pacer who has 100+ wickets at a sub 25 average! Maybe if Kapil paaji had burst onto the scene before Sunny Gavaskar did' date=' we may have seen a bowling culture develop in our cricket, alas not to be.[/quote'] +1 Thats the simple reason imo. We don't have a bowling culture. I don't buy the vegetarian / non-vegetarian excuse ... So many Indians are non-veg.

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I think we need bowlers who can take wickets and stay fit. These kind of talks only have confused Ishant and he has forgotten the art of striking which is so tragic. Give me that strike bowler Ishant anyday, even if you take back his speed by 5kmph.

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I think we need bowlers who can take wickets and stay fit. These kind of talks only have confused Ishant and he has forgotten the art of striking which is so tragic. Give me that strike bowler Ishant anyday' date=' even if you take back his speed by 5kmph.[/quote'] He has lost his swing and pace.

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He has lost his swing and pace.
Don't think pace is lost. I still noticed few deliveries of 144 which are by no means slow. Swing, yes, brain yes, thinking power yes, fitness yes.... all that is lost. Just because concentrating on pace.

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Don't think pace is lost. I still noticed few deliveries of 144 which are by no means slow. Swing' date=' yes, brain yes, thinking power yes, fitness yes.... all that is lost. Just because concentrating on pace.[/quote'] What 144km/h.He hardly touched 140km/h .he was slower than bhuvneshwar.It might be cricinfo error. His problem is he was an inswing bowler with a inswinger better than anybody in world cricket in 2008.The ball swung and then cut in.He tried to get a outswinger and lost his wrist and pace.He worked to get his pace back and got it.But the swing never came now he is trying to improve his seam position and looking to seam it which he is not good at.

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Some of its fine, hill people seems like broscience though.

No role models. We are yet to produce a pacer who has 100+ wickets at a sub 25 average! Maybe if Kapil paaji had burst onto the scene before Sunny Gavaskar did' date=' we may have seen a bowling culture develop in our cricket, alas not to be.[/quote'] Mind=Blown. Never thought of that. Praveen Kumar is on course. His average might increase from 25 though. :nice: Even Kumble averaged 29, no wonder why we never dominate. :mad: India is the only big country to have such chit bowlers. Even Lankans produced Murali. Any other team with Sehwag, Dravid, SRT, Laxman and Ganguly in the batting would have been very dominant.

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LOL , why are people talking about ishanth , he has bowled much slower than all three of the pakistani pacers all series ( with riaz and anwar still warming the bench ), and shoaib wasnt the only quick one from pkistan , there was a guy called waqar younis , who alec stewart beleives was the quickest bowler he has plyed ( quicker than donald ) , while zahid was also in the express pace category .

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Indians simply don't train to be express bowlers, and you can't blame them with the kind of pitches they play on. If you absolutely wanted a speedster, you would take a quick bowler and train them (gym, technique etc..).

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No role models. We are yet to produce a pacer who has 100+ wickets at a sub 25 average! Maybe if Kapil paaji had burst onto the scene before Sunny Gavaskar did' date=' we may have seen a bowling culture develop in our cricket, alas not to be.[/quote'] Legend has it that he wanted demanded additional food during training and when he was questioned why, his desire to become a fast bowler was ridiculed by his coach. This was not because the coach doubted Kapil Dev's potential, it was about the genuine lack of importance given to fast bowlers in India. Though we haven't had anyone comparable since he retired, things do look slightly better in comparison.

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Two reasons why i think pakistan has better fast bowlers 1) small country , easy to spot raw talents in domestic circuit and trials. 2) Pakistan inserts bowlers with raw pace and talent straight into the national side. We on the other hand want our u-19 and developing fast bowlers to "prove" 2-3 seasons in domestic circuits where they get tired being whacked in flat pitches and cut down pace to develop variations.

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2) Pakistan inserts bowlers with raw pace and talent straight into the national side. We on the other hand want our u-19 and developing fast bowlers to "prove" 2-3 seasons in domestic circuits where they get tired being whacked in flat pitches and cut down pace to develop variations.
It's true that this is a general problem with India. There is such a great fear of losing that we'd rather stick with out-of-form seniors than give some experience to the young blood. The Aussies and Pakistan have both been excellent when it comes to giving their young talent top level experience.

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LOL ' date=' why are people talking about ishanth , he has bowled much slower than all three of the pakistani pacers all series ( with riaz and anwar still warming the bench ), and shoaib wasnt the only quick one from pkistan , there was a guy called waqar younis , who alec stewart beleives was the quickest bowler he has plyed ( quicker than donald ) , while zahid was also in the express pace category .[/quote'] Ishant is coming back from a foot operation and is bowling way slower than normal. Last season he was bowling 140 k to 152 k. Umesh and Aaron are also bowling 140 k to 152 k. I liked Md. Irfan but he had already reduced his pace to 133 k to 144 k from the consistent 140s in his first match. Umar Gul has slowed down a lot and Junaid is also just fast-medium.

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It's true that this is a general problem with India. There is such a great fear of losing that we'd rather stick with out-of-form seniors than give some experience to the young blood. The Aussies and Pakistan have both been excellent when it comes to giving their young talent top level experience.
But there is always a lot of pressure on Indian team in the sense that viewers and media expect India to win every game and if they dont, they get criticized heavily and they demand players and captain to be dropped. So selectors play it safe and go with experienced out of form seniors rather than rookies who may fail because of pressure.

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It's true that this is a general problem with India. There is such a great fear of losing that we'd rather stick with out-of-form seniors than give some experience to the young blood. The Aussies and Pakistan have both been excellent when it comes to giving their young talent top level experience.
Not only the selectors , even many here in ICF want "tested" players and want U-19 players to play 2-3 seasons. This may be good for batsman like chand , but if u see a fast bowler with good pace picking wickets it is better to put him in the team ASAP rather than waiting to see his performance for 2-3 season

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Why this obsession for pace? Remember guys, one of the greatest pacers of our time has been McGrath and Akram who were just Line and Length bowlers with swing. They were not express pace, but had just enough. It is very difficult to maintain your fitness if you are 150+, and Lee, Shane Bond, Tait and Akthar had a very injury prone career. Infact Shane Bond was one gem of a bowler who could swing it big with his speed, but again his speed killed his body. So if we are to look for a long term solution for our bowling woes, we require consistent line and length bowlers who can swing the ball with enough pace (135 to 145K).

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if waqar is express so is zaheer vinay sreeshanth nehra etc btw who is zahid:idunno:
you must have only seen a few youtube videos of an older waqar and reached that conclusion. A young Waqar, prior to injuries, was very fast, and not just for a year or two but about 6 years. Injuries robbed him of his pace, but he was pretty damn fast at his peak.

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Lol, wasn't he the same guy who said the mumbai attackers were the best warriors in the world? This ******* has his mind in his ass and thinks and believes in race theory. He is from the late 1960s who thought that handful of Pak soldiers are enough for Indian army becoz they believe in the martial race theory and that bullshit theory was ended after the heavy defeat they suffered in 197 war.

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+1 Thats the simple reason imo. We don't have a bowling culture. I don't buy the vegetarian / non-vegetarian excuse ... So many Indians are non-veg.
when we do work outs we have posters of Arnold, sylvester stallone in the gym room . When we work on fast bowling why do you think we should have only Indian player as a source of inspiration. There are lot of batsmen outside INdia idolizing Sachin. Why not draw inspiration from say Donald, Mcgrath.. etc.

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This thread is getting derailed trying to "argue" how Indian bowlers are just as fast. We all know in our hearts this is most certainly not the case past or present. Can anyone honestly say if given a choice they would take Prasad Srinath over Waqar and Wasim? How about right now Junaid and Gul or Vinay Kumar and Dinda? Speed has a lot to do with it.

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^^Junaid is not really quick. He is a swing bowler. Bhuvaneswar is a good find for India who can bowl 130+ and swing it. Ishant is really quick. Vinay Kumar is more of a tight line and length bowler who can be effective in LOIs. We will see more quick bowlers playing for India next year. But they have to be selected instead of being made to toil on flat decks in FC which is usually the case. Imran Khan is an idiot and I dont understand why news channels in India allow him to talk. All the theories he talked about that India will feel pressure in SF against Pakistan in front of home crowd were squashed when it turned out that Pak was feeling the heat as they missed 5 or 6 catches and failed to chase 260. He is just a big mouth idiot like Aamir Sohail who always end up with egg on his face after loose comments. :hehe:

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