For Indian Cricket to improve learn from US Baseball

[Midfielder]

Batsman does play yorkers well right.. you need very good reflexes to play yorkers especially the one that reverses.

Still you have lot of area to work with. Not every bowl is a yorker.

[Midfielder]

What is the longest hit 6 this year?

[vvvslaxman]

More realistic question (1) Cricket ball at 60 mph (2) Bball at 90 mph Which one would you pick.

That is not realistic as even with unnatural action bowlers bowl at you at 90 mph.

[vvvslaxman]

Who is this batsman?

Afridi :cantstop: He is exactly using the baseball technique

[Muloghonto]

Lateral movement is hard to handle a corkscrew is impossible. Seam 8 has lot more variation and turbulence. Straight seam not so much.

You have no idea what you are talking of. Of that, i am certain. Nothing is hard to handle, the human mind can handle any motion by repetetive understanding of predictive motion. Seam 8 does NOT have more variations, it has less. That is because most of the variations are cancelled out in seam 8. It is pretty basic principle of fluid dynamics that an axial leison/abrasion/deformity will cause more variations to the object under motion in a fluidic field than a non-axial one. Seam 8 is non-axial. This is why a cricket ball does far more though the air than a baseball.

[vvvslaxman]

What is the longest hit 6 this year?

If you seriously think a baseball player can hit 195 meter six? Are you kidding me? Bat that is almost twice the weight, with all the protective gear hitting a heavier and harder ball as long as baseball? No chance. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt6pIw__kbw]Virat Kohli - Stump Batting - YouTube[/ame] Talk about hitting the ball with smaller "area"

[Muloghonto]

Motions are the same. This is not difficult but it is true" A baseball player can play any sport better than other sport player can baseball."

The motions are not the same. The motion required to impart a parabolic curve (throw from the outfield) is different than what a 'flat throw' will be. And flat throws in cricket are aimed overhead, not from the side in most cases. The last statement is total idiocy. Vitually any hockey forward will be a better slugger than any baseball player putting on skates and trying to skate. baseball is a sport of very few skills that are focussed on. Most sports focusses on far more skills than baseball focusses on.

[vvvslaxman]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85opG7E1F7Y]Virat Kohli Blindfold Batting - YouTube[/ame] Let them try this

[Muloghonto]

There is no one in the world who can catch baseball with barehands. It is called deathwish as your hand will split in two. The energy and spin on the ball is so much that human body is not designed for it.

totally false. Baseballs are easier to catch than cricket balls. I've played both. its far easier to catch a baseball than a cricket ball without a glove. When i play the local leagues, i play without gloves, as i am used to catching a cricket ball without gloves. The seam 8 gives far more friction (which is why it is so rare to see dropped catches in baseball) than the axial seam of a cricket ball for most orientations of the ball, which means the ball is far more likely to stick in your hand than a cricket ball is. A baseball is softer and is bigger. hence easier to catch.

[Muloghonto]

Like Democracy, Freedom fries, bombing random countries in the name of spreading democracy/halting communism/WMD and Lady Gaga most of the uniquely American concepts I've encountered are pretty stupid, superficial and lame. American sports are no different. Early last year, me and the Mr, were in the USA for a short holiday. Basically to visit my brother. In his backyard (or whatever is the right Americanism for that area) they have this one half of a Basketball court. So one morning, when I had nothing to do, I just walked that court and tried my hand at the game. And to tell you the truth, I'd never played basketball before that. I must have been 12-15 feet (my estimate) away from the loop. And I managed to score without much of an effort. And I'm just 5'5 or 5'6. Such a ridiculously easy game. I don't know why the NBA needs all those 7 footers to do something so seemingly easy. Any residual respect that I had for American sports and American society by extension, immediately evaporated that morning. There is nothing that our supremely talented cricketers can learn from the US sports. Baseball anyways is a corruption of smash the Bison with a club sport that the original Americans (read Red Indians) used to play during the hunting seasons. The White invaders apparently misunderstood what was going on and we have baseball as a result. Joke of a sport.

You should give American football a chance- its a difficult game to pick up and follow right away but its the most nuanced sports out there. Imagine a sport where the 'brain' (aka coach/coaching staff) can manuever the play to pin-point precision 90% of the time, where each player knows his role so well- the things they are going to attempt to do are all so different and executed brilliantly, you get football. it is the most strategic sport out there. If you have the players and enough intel at your disposal, you can effectively chart a 'plan', if successful, will result in a 2 point victory at the end, with exactly the same posession as you predicted. This is true to such a degree that teams hire lip readers to try and 'gather intel' on opposition plans. That is why coaches often speak with a folder in front of their mouths and most mouth-pieces are as fat as a yankee engorged on freedom fries all his life.

[Midfielder]

That is not realistic as even with unnatural action bowlers bowl at you at 90 mph.

90 mph ball comes to you at no more than 60. A 90 mph in baseball comes to you at 80. That is why my question was more realistic.

[Midfielder]

You have no idea what you are talking of. Of that, i am certain. Nothing is hard to handle, the human mind can handle any motion by repetetive understanding of predictive motion. Seam 8 does NOT have more variations, it has less. That is because most of the variations are cancelled out in seam 8. It is pretty basic principle of fluid dynamics that an axial leison/abrasion/deformity will cause more variations to the object under motion in a fluidic field than a non-axial one. Seam 8 is non-axial. This is why a cricket ball does far more though the air than a baseball.

Complex seam has more complexity. I have never seen a cricket ball change direction twice in flight. A corkscrew can easily change direction twice. In cricket ball the seam creates uncertainity in one direction only. If one side has more shine the air is faster around ther compared to the other side where the air is slow. That is why ball moves left or right. In simple term two is more than one.

[vvvslaxman]

90 mph ball comes to you at no more than 60. A 90 mph in baseball comes to you at 80. That is why my question was more realistic.

Why is it coming at 60? You say yorkers are exception. Do you see our batsmen struggling against yorkers? Dhoni even hit them for six. Unless they can show a connection percentage of atleast 50% the whole opinion of baseball players having better reflexes is a moot point. Sure they are large, megat sized with gigantic forehands. When they connect it will go long. But how often they connect. That is the point. They don't often connect. That is the whole point of the baseball right? Hit it as hard as possible as long as possible. Cricket is a game that needs lot more finesse. You will not be allowed to swing the bat through the line in every match and get away . THe objective and means with which you go about the game is different though the fundamentals are similar. Steriord filled, beer bellied baseball players should not be equated with our players. Sure everyone can learn from Usain Bolt> but they won't become Usain Bolt. There are physical limitations beyond which you cannot go. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChVWy9jMNaY]Top 10 biggest sixes in cricket history - YouTube[/ame] CHeck the no.1 my word.. went out of WACA . Even in cricket they can hit gigantic six.

[NameGoesHere]

Some of you guys who deride American sports clearly have either not been exposed to them, have pre -conceived notions, or have watched a few games without knowing much of what was going on. I used to be exactly the same until I really got into watching some of those sports.

..........Well your concept of what 'one can see' is quite limited. I have seen Mick Skinner in real life and Im pretty sure the fitness of rugby players are on a different planet altogether. By rugby I don't mean the buffoonery americans watch where guys huff and puff wearing helmets and pillows.................

You are entitled to your opinion. But these kinds of posts make it difficult to take your other points seriously. It's hard to for me to convey the toughness of those who play American football. I came to understand through personal experiences. A friend of mine who played 'only' at the college level and was built like a tank at five feet nine inches. One training exercise- His coach used to make the offensive and defensive teams run into walls - at speed. And yeah they wore full gear. Some other sessions they would not let you go until you finished or passed out. People would throw up and continue playing. And this is not extraordinary. There's a now famous college training camp in the 1950s - the 'Junction Boys' coaching camp for the Texas A&M team. Look it up sometime. Other sports such as rugby may be 'tougher' for all I know. But to undermine American football by claiming it is some game where "guys huff and puff wearing helmets and pillows"- that just shows you are not knowledgeable enough yet to evaluate the sport.

[NameGoesHere]

.......... Early last year, me and the Mr, were in the USA for a short holiday. Basically to visit my brother. In his backyard (or whatever is the right Americanism for that area) they have this one half of a Basketball court. So one morning, when I had nothing to do, I just walked that court and tried my hand at the game. And to tell you the truth, I'd never played basketball before that. I must have been 12-15 feet (my estimate) away from the loop. And I managed to score without much of an effort. And I'm just 5'5 or 5'6. Such a ridiculously easy game. I don't know why the NBA needs all those 7 footers to do something so seemingly easy..............

Yeah one day I was in Jhumri Telaiya trying out for the Jhumri Telaiya Idols competition. I came across this cricket field and saw a bat and ball. I took the bat, tossed the ball up myself, and hit the ball to all parts of the ground. No one else was there to watch it, but I hit a 4 every time. I don't why cricket needs those phassssth bowlers or spinners or even batsmen. Madam, forget the NBA. Next time try even getting into even a 2 on 2 street basketball game. Then when you have elbows in your face, across your windpipe, and full body contact, it'll be interesting to see how many three pointers you manage.

[FischerTal]

Yeah one day I was in Jhumri Telaiya trying out for the Jhumri Telaiya Idols competition. I came across this cricket field and saw a bat and ball. I took the bat, tossed the ball up myself, and hit the ball to all parts of the ground. No one else was there to watch it, but I hit a 4 every time. I don't why cricket needs those phassssth bowlers or spinners or even batsmen. Madam, forget the NBA. Next time try even getting into even a 2 on 2 street basketball game. Then when you have elbows in your face, across your windpipe, and full body contact, it'll be interesting to see how many three pointers you manage.

i think yam is just underestimating how hard basketball is. its one thing to shoot hoops by yourself, but another when you are playing on the streets

[NameGoesHere]

i think yam is just underestimating how hard basketball. its one thing to shoot hoops by yourself' date=' but another when you are playing on the streets[/quote'] I'd say forget even the street games. Just try to shoot hoops with someone just screaming in your ear, and not even playing against you.

[vvvslaxman]

Each sports has some finer aspects. That doesn't mean we have to like them all. Let us just leave it at that. It is not like some of us didn't try to give a chance. Tried. Didn't enjoy much. NBA is the only one that i followed religiously. Never hooked onto other american sports.

[vvvslaxman]

Now we can discuss. What Donald was doing was the right thing. Right out of baseball and that is the way it should be.The team manager had to stop the sorry behind of Raina from bowling. On a similar token Yuvraj should not have been selected or the team manager should have asked him to sacrifice his wicket. Lot of poor thinking on Indias part. Like I mentioned before SL made a tactical mistake by catching Yuvraj. if they would have dropped him they would have won in 15 overs. Modern games require quick thinking detailed statistics and Captain Dhoni is not fit to do all that.

Back again. 1) Raina bowling Yes. That was a blunder. That has been a blunder he has been doing almost every match. Using part timers against run of play. Since he is repeating in every match they could very well discuss outside the ground as well about introduction of Raina. So i believe Dhoni is more intent distributing the overs without looking like a fool. He does not go for the kill by taking a gamble. Play safe approach. I am not sure he is going to listen to any advice from coach midway through the match. or the fatso is too scared.. We would never know 2) Yuvraj sacrifice This is where cricketing culture comes into play. Unlike MLB other leagues, it is an international game. You are a national star not some club star. May be in IPL these kind of strategies work. In an international match reputation of batsman counts. It is basic common sense that he had to hit out or get out. Exact words from Hussain. But Yuvraj like a deer caught in the headlights could not do anything. It was quiet perplexing. Unlike League sports like MLB you cannot interrupt games frequently. For this blame solely lies on Yuvraj. May be Kohli could have told him. Yes it was one of those rare situations where they could have sent a message. But they probably thought he would make up in the end which is what Yuvra would have also gambled on. Yes strategically we are not doing things right. There are at times you should deny strike to even teh reputed batsman if that guy was not going well. Darren Sammy did exactly that against Australia. He denied a single. He knew if anyone was going to hit a six that was him. He took it upon himself and smashed Faulkner for sixes.

[Muloghonto]

Complex seam has more complexity.

Please do not argue. You will only expose your lack of understanding and incorrectness in a science field you do not understand. It is not about the complex seam. it is about imbalance created between two hemespheres of the ball travelling through air creating a deviation. I can come up with a far more complex seam than a baseball, put it on a ball and it will do far less. You don't need it to be a diametrical seam for it to divide a ball into two hemespheres that will cause bigger deviation. It can be on any arc. But any spherical object not travelling under its own propulsion will cause greater movement: both in degree and in variety when it is divided by an axial seam than a figure 8. or a 7 or a 18 or 88.

I have never seen a cricket ball change direction twice in flight. A corkscrew can easily change direction twice.

Sure. The baseball can do one thing the cricketball cannot do. A cricket ball can do more things to a far greater degree than what a baseball can: lateral movement and dip: both late & linear.

In cricket ball the seam creates uncertainity in one direction only. If one side has more shine the air is faster around ther compared to the other side where the air is slow. That is why ball moves left or right. In simple term two is more than one.

Err no. Spinners get the ball to dip all the time and some fast bowlers- like Waqar Younis- did it al the time too. Your precious baseball can corkscrew. It is only one type of movement through the air. A cricket ball can leave you (move out) far more, curl into you ( move in) far more, hang in the air with far greater uncertainty. Ie, it can do more. And basic fluid dynamics dictates this.