mishra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: It was a guess. Because step 2 in the plebiscite is India pulling out of Kashmir. Why is it stuck in RS. Who is not wanting it to pass if that is the solution. There re are news and interview I have seen where people on both sides have claimed that Atal govt was close to solving the issue You are again propagating false info. First Step 2 comes only after conditions in step 1 is satisfactorily met. i.e Pakistani army withdraws. Secondly step 2 doesnt say India pull out. It says tribesmen and Pakistani nationals which came to PoK pull out completely and India maintains sufficient level of Army in whole of J&K. http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S%2FRES%2F47(1948) Edited May 23, 2017 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: From wiki it is part of the constitution confirmed by SC in 2015 . In the case of Jammu and Kashmir, the representatives to the Constituent Assembly[5]requested that only those provisions of the Indian Constitution that corresponded to the original Instrument of Accession should be applied to the State. Accordingly, the Article 370 was incorporated into the Indian Constitution, which stipulated that the other articles of the Constitution that gave powers to the Central Government would be applied to Jammu and Kashmir only with the concurrence of the State's constituent assembly. This was a "temporary provision" in that its applicability was intended to last till the formulation and adoption of the State's constitution.[6] However, the State's constituent assembly dissolved itself on 25 January 1957 without recommending either abrogation or amendment of the Article 370. Thus the Article has become a permanent feature of the Indian constitution, as confirmed by various rulings of the Supreme Court of India and the High Court of Jammu and Kashmir, the latest of which was in October 2015.[7][8][9][10] And Parliament can repeal that using 2/3 rd of majority. UN ruling isnt dependent of Indian parliament Edited May 23, 2017 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, mishra said: And Parliament can repeal that using 2/3 rd of majority Yes. So why are we not doing it at least table the repealment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, mishra said: You are again propagating false info. First Step 2 comes only after step 1. Secondly step 2 doesnt say India pull out. It says tribesmen which came to PoK pull out completely and India maintains sufficient level of Army in whole of J&K. http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S%2FRES%2F47(1948) Fair. Third step is the plebiscite. How will we avoid that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: Fair. Third step is the plebiscite. How will we avoid that? How do you conclude India wont abide by UN resolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: Yes. So why are we not doing it at least table the repealment I dont know, May be Government thinks it wont win the repealment and risk associated is high. Cost benefit analysis may match up in event it looses the repeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 minute ago, mishra said: I dont know, May be Government thinks it wont win the repealment and risk associated is high. Cost benefit analysis may match up in event it looses the repeal. If that is the only step, it has to be tabled. If it is not passed due to non BJP members, they will never come to power again. What is the risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, mishra said: How do you conclude India wont abide by UN resolution? Because if a plebiscite is held, there is a chance Kashmir may go to Pakistan. How will we take that risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: Because if a plebiscite is held, there is a chance Kashmir may go to Pakistan. How will we take that risk? You may be right about outcome which we all know that is next to impossible. Apart from Hardcore Jihadi no one else sees Pakistan as a state to be associated with. But that doesnt justify the statement that India will not abide by UN resolution. Infact in current situation, China will declare Pakistan bankrupt may be bomb Pakistan if it tries to do step 1. Edited May 23, 2017 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, mishra said: You may be right about outcome which we all know that is next to impossible. Apart from Hardcore Jihadi no one else sees Pakistan as a state to be associated with. But that doesnt justify the statement that India will not abide by UN resolution. Infact in current situation, China will declare Pakistan bankrupt if it tries to do step 1. Does not the UN resolution give only two options - India or Pakistan. I am not saying India will not abide. But how comfortable will we be with a plebiscite? then if step 1 is not possible, what possibly does Rajnath Singh have in his mind Edited May 23, 2017 by Haarkarjeetgaye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: Does not the UN resolution give only two options - India or Pakistan. I am not saying India will not abide. But how comfortable will we be with a plebiscite? India is a responsible country and I believe it wont backtrack on UN resolution. What people are "comfortable with" doesnt matter as not abiding by UN resolution will have graver consequence in terms of various other disputes specially the ones with China. Edited May 23, 2017 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, mishra said: India is a responsible country and I believe it wont backtrack on UN resolution. I agree. So plebiscite is the only possible solution. That is what Rajnath has in his mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: I agree. So plebiscite is the only possible solution. That is what Rajnath has in his mind Now you are making a political statement. Just to remind Step 1. Pakistani forces have to withdraw voluntarily. Why plebiscite is only possible solution. Peace is generally gained at the edge of sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, mishra said: Now you are making a political statement. Just to remind Step 1. Pakistani forces have to withdraw voluntarily. Why plebiscite is only possible solution. Peace is generally gained at the edge of sword. I am just trying to figure out what possible solution does Rajnath Singh have in his mind to claim NDA will solve this problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: I am just trying to figure out what possible solution does Rajnath Singh have in his mind to claim NDA will solve this problem If you make such random guesses like article 370 or UN resolution tab too rahane de bhai figureout karane ko. Vilander 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, mishra said: If you make such random guesses like article 370 or UN resolution tab too rahane de bhai figureout karane ko. I don't see a solution, so my guesses will be random. May be you have better guesses. But like me very few here believe there is a solution. So what is our Home Minister saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: I don't see a solution, so my guesses will be random. May be you have better guesses. But like me very few here believe there is a solution. So what is our Home Minister saying? There is no insurgency/movement without support of Pakistan. Pakistan is key to resolution of trouble. American gave them grants instead of loans. So India can not make American to get t something substantial from Pakistan. But Chinese are ruthless and shrewd as they gave loan to acquire strategic Pakistani infrastructure. So who knows, India can find a resolution to OBOR and Kashmir with financial pie in OBOR project. Thats one way i see it, India and China have upped ante here. Pakistan and SCS or Taiwan is, may be just part of same piece of puzzle. Thats only diplomatic solution i see. China already have given hints like they can withdraw P from CPEC or just give one particular part of Aruanchal. So in my opinion, India needs China to force Pakistan to stop thinking about Kashmir for gppd. For that how much pressure needs to be applied on China and when or whether we will achieve, who knows. Edited May 23, 2017 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 11 hours ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: It was a guess. Because step 2 in the plebiscite is India pulling out of Kashmir. Why is it stuck in RS. Who is not wanting it to pass if that is the solution. There re are news and interview I have seen where people on both sides have claimed that Atal govt was close to solving the issue No. Step 2 is India maintaining minimum military presence to ensure law, order and sovereign integrity. It doesnt ask India to pull out, it asks India to maintain minimum troop levels required. Vilander 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 On 5/23/2017 at 5:38 AM, Muloghonto said: The only potential way that has worked, is communism/totalitarianism, such as USSR practiced in Central asia (no Islamic rebellions or anything in the USSR period in the central asian countries) or China is doing in Xinjiang. But that is not an option for India, because there is no way Indians will follow a government that goes 'do as we tell you and if you ask questions, you die/disappear'. Interesting point. Lesser the identity displayed/shown, the less the assertiveness and, thus less violence and terror . So far, that's maybe working there but nobody knows the long term implications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Just when NIA started rounding up various terrorists, MoFo Aiyyar, visits Kashmir to meets and discusse with separatists leaders of Kashmir. Today, Mass stone pelting happens in few parts Kashmir. I wonder what he really discussed. PS: Its same snake who advised Pakistan to "Remove Modi". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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