ICL, IPL...May You Die A Quick Death

[Guest HariSampath]

You know absolutely nothing about football mate. No one gives a flying f uck about international football. The atmosphere at World Cup matches are pathetic, no passion, no intensity. People's allegiances are to their clubs - clubs represent their cities, their communities. The rivalries between club sides are far more intense and go back more than 100 years. Watch a derby and you will understand. People could kill in their name of their clubs, and that's happened in the past. Obviously you won't understand this since you have never followed or watched football. You don't have to believe me, just go to any football forum and ask genuine, match-going fans if they care more about club or country.

How do you know what I know/dont know about soccer ? Do you remember the 1986 Argentina-England games at the time of the Falklands war ? The "hand of god" goal by Maradona ? I had been following football from before that , and tell me how many people in the world remember an intense ManU Arsenal game or remember Platini hitting the post in a penalty shootout ? You say no one gives a damn about International soccer ? Oh my...just google worldcup audiences, following, the amount of sponsorships, TV coverage etc, and compare it with a game in Liverpool. The facts of the matter are club football= local. International football=global. Club football never gives a place in history, International football does so. A Brazilian President will watch his team play the game in a WC and the whole country will come to a standstill officially. Such a thing can never happen in club football. Likewise, If India is playing Pakistan in a WC finals, everyone will be in front of the TV and thats the game Sachin will want to play, perform and win. But if Kolkata is playing Chennai in Mohali for a game, even 1/100 of the folks wont be interested.

[Guest HariSampath]

Man Utd v Arsenal >>>>> Engerland vs Germany. Nobody cares about international football. Tell me this. What would you rather watch. NBA finals or USA vs Portugal in the olympics.

The number of people watching the dream team play Portugal in an olympics will be far more than those who follow a Bulls Vs Lakers playoff. Did you know that a few years back, the US woman's soccer team winning rated higher viewership than many national league games ?

[Guest HariSampath]

The world's GREATEST sporting event is the world cup football. There are NO TWO opinions on this. The FIFA world cup in Germany in 2006 had a cumulative world audience of 26.4 billions and the 2010 wc in South Africa is expected to top 30 billions in cumulative audiences This is because countries compete for a place in history and football glory for their countries...NO club/league game can even hold a candle to this type of global following and intensity/passion of the fans/watchers world over. For football greats, this is THE stage to perform. A goalkeeper saving a penalty in a finals would become a national hero, and a last minute equaliser will send the adrenalin of billions soaring across the globe....can ANY club/league game provide this ??

[Zap_Brannigan]

Like i said, WC comes once every 4 years. Apart from footie WC, other Intl fixtures pull in very small number of viewers compared to English and Spanish premier. And i quote "Similarly NBA,MLB,NFL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dream team, Baseball WC and whatever the equivalent of NFL international is." Portugal Vs Dream team might pull a lot of people(only cos its Olympics), but do you remember any of those games? What abt the baseball WC a couple of years back. The only games i remember now in those sports are Man U Vs Bayern Munich, Yankees Vs Diamond backs in 2001 and the NBA playoffs. So basically we have 1 footie trny and 1 Basketball that might pull more people in and both happen only once every 4 years. Meanwhile we have the NBA finals, the world series and the superbowl every year.

[fineleg]

Unrelated, but talk of FIFA reminded me of this. I loved these Adidas commercials: Beckenbauer!? The kid goes like whoa! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fncOu6dp1IY]YouTube - Jose+10 Adidas Commercial 1& 2 (Complete)[/ame]

[fineleg]

^^ If any1 remembers the "Didi's No Stop Nonsense" that came on Television in India, can you remember if there was a Didi episode where he imitates a leading goalkeeper? That waz hilarious! Dieter Hallervorden! (thatz didi :D)

[Dhondy]

Is this even a valid comparison? Comparing an upstart league of a sport played in 10 nations with one that has a worldwide following? Comparing games between Barcelona- Real or Man-United-Liverpool to Bombay Babes versus Baroda Bastaards or whatever the hell those cooked up things are called is just ridiculous, IMO. And this has no relevance to the current discussion, but World cup football and European championships are, and will remain a huge draw. I agree with Hari on this. Club football may equal, but never eclipse such tournaments. ICL is stillborn. Watch IPL fade away within a couple of years. Just nonsense, really.

[Guest Hiten.]

Is this even a valid comparison? Comparing an upstart league of a sport played in 10 nations with one that has a worldwide following? ICL is stillborn. Watch IPL fade away within a couple of years. Just nonsense, really.

To start off, I am not with nor against ICL/IPL. Simply because they don't deteriorate my passion for Team India. You said, don't compare Soccer leagues with 'stillborn' cricket leagues, well why not ? Soccer leagues too started off as underdog, but surprisingly franchises are making gold out of it aren't they ? Only plus point soccer leagues carry is that there are hardly any international fixtures for them to collide with these leagues' fixtures. This is where your anxiety will kick in, IF IPL is instant hit, will ICC cut out International fixture ? This is THE question to ponder upon. When this situation arises, I will be with you in boycotting IPL :regular_smile:

[Dhondy]

To start off' date=' I am not with nor against ICL/IPL. Simply because they don't deteriorate my passion for Team India. You said, don't compare Soccer leagues with 'stillborn' cricket leagues, well why not ? [b']Soccer leagues too started off as underdog, but surprisingly franchises are making gold out of it aren't they ? Only plus point soccer leagues carry is that there are hardly any international fixtures for them to collide with these leagues' fixtures. This is where your anxiety will kick in, IF IPL is instant hit, will ICC cut out International fixture ? This is THE question to ponder upon. When this situation arises, I will be with you in boycotting IPL :regular_smile:

The highlighted bits are incorrect. Soccer leagues have as rich a history as international football and preceded many national teams. They also helped highlight players from lesser known nations and helped those nations enter the international stage, which is never going to happen with IPL, etc. Just look up the year that Real Madrid was born, and you will get an idea of what I am talking about. And soccer club fixtures clash with international fixtures all the time. Players often have to choose between club and country, and do, sometimes reporting injured, etc.

[Guest Hiten.]

The highlighted bits are incorrect. Soccer leagues have as rich a history as international football and preceded many national teams. They also helped highlight players from lesser known nations and helped those nations enter the international stage, which is never going to happen with IPL, etc. Just look up the year that Real Madrid was born, and you will get an idea of what I am talking about. And soccer club fixtures clash with international fixtures all the time. Players often have to choose between club and country, and do, sometimes reporting injured, etc.

Looks like I am not well aware of soccers' news/history. Apologies Doc :giggle: But I still believe that IPL should be given a chance to prove its worth. We simply cannot write-off things, just because we don't like the idea of its existence. I mean didn't people accuse ODI's to suck out all the fun in test matches ? But now we all know how they walk together holding each others' hands.

[beetle]

Lalit Modi is shpowing his true colours now. He is acting like a mafia don. There are less cruder ways of using money power. He made it so obvious and crude in the monkeygate issue when the same result could have been got without crude show of money power and he is doing it here again. He makes indians look crude.

[bunny]

I think true cricket is test cricket but that takes 5 days (and does not have a lot of fan following), so it's not the best way of generating revenue. Hence, any league such as IPL/ICL wouldn't want to include it in its menu. In essence IPL/ICL will be about 20-20s and 50-50s, which is in essence a contradiction with international cricket. Would a cricketer give preference to the money and 20-20 of IPL or the relatively less money of international test cricket? On the other hand, if IPL/ICL do include 4-day games then the issue is that no cricketer can play more than 150 days of active cricket which means either he plays only club cricket or only international cricket or only one form of the game or play some games in IPL and some games of international cricket. In essence, pretty much what's happening now is what we will have. International cricket will rule and some international cricketers will play ODIs/20-20s of IPL, but no international cricketer will play 4-day games at IPL/county/domestic level.

[Dhondy]

In a already crowded international calendar pushing players to the limit, leading to injuries, burnout and depression, is there space for yet more cricket, that too of the contrived variety?

[bunny]

In a already crowded international calendar pushing players to the limit' date=' leading to injuries, burnout and depression, is there space for yet more cricket, that too of the contrived variety?[/quote'] No there isn't but IPL will help a lot in providing monetary opportunities to domestic level players. The best situation would be for 3-4 countries to have their own IPL type leagues so that domestic players can make money and at the same time international cricketers making money by playing international cricket as also the 20-20/ODI form of league cricket. Right now international cricket supports the revenue of most state-level sides which is not how it should be. Each country's club level cricket should support itself and that can only happen if club level cricket has some stars and also the number of international games are cut down. I think IPL is the right step in that direction. Obviously right now there are far too many international cricketers participating in the IPL but it will lessen if equivalent leagues spawn in other countries. And then we would have only meaningful test cricket, world cups, and club level 50-50s and 20-20s where stars participate (and club-level 4-day games where stars don't participate). And that would be a good mix I think.

[Gambit]

I share your sentiments Dhondy. I too want IPL and ICL to fizzle out. Nothing should replace international cricket. Nothing stirs up passion quite like the way international games do in Cricket. However, what Lurker is saying is true. Cricket, like any other major sport, is a business. It needs to be a profitable exercise. Apart from Australia, England and India, test match attendances are dwindling. The money just isn't pouring in. This IPL/ICL circus promises to be a mega money generator. Can you believe than Sony is offering a 30 second ad slot during IPL games for $16,500?!! That is crazy money. But I am hopeful. I hope that the common fans, people who buy tickets for these games, watch it on TV, give it a thumbs down after realising that these games didn't really excite them or stir their emotions quite like their beloved Indian Cricket Team did. International Cricket survived the Packer era, hope it survives this tidal wave.

[King]

If you guys are quite happy to follow English Premier or European league I don't see any reason why you guys should hate ICL, IPL or Stanford 20/20. Sure Twenty20s are not much of an entertainment for some purists but it has its place in cricket as does test or ODI cricket. Not everyone is a keen test cricket follower. It may sound odd to you but perspectives are different among people. I think it's not such a bad idea a month and a half of Twenty20 cricket if that's going to bring top players around the world under one roof. I think it will attract more people to the sport and that isn't bad for the sport. It's unfortunate ICL is not recognized by the cricket boards around the world though. I don't quite understand why IPL is fine but not ICL. In fact ICL has assured they will release players for national duty if there is a need. Get used to this folks cricket is not going to be what it used to be. I hope the quality doesn't suffer because of the quantity.

[fineleg]

I hope the quality doesn't suffer because of the quantity.

There iz a high chance that it will suffer. However, as long as fans realize Test cricket is the REAL DEAL - it shud be ok in the long run.

[mhr123]

I don't think cricket will be a passion anymore for ICF with so much $$$ involved.

[Predator_05]

How do you know what I know/dont know about soccer ? Do you remember the 1986 Argentina-England games at the time of the Falklands war ? The "hand of god" goal by Maradona ? I had been following football from before that , and tell me how many people in the world remember an intense ManU Arsenal game or remember Platini hitting the post in a penalty shootout ? You say no one gives a damn about International soccer ? Oh my...just google worldcup audiences, following, the amount of sponsorships, TV coverage etc, and compare it with a game in Liverpool. The facts of the matter are club football= local. International football=global. Club football never gives a place in history, International football does so. A Brazilian President will watch his team play the game in a WC and the whole country will come to a standstill officially. Such a thing can never happen in club football. Likewise, If India is playing Pakistan in a WC finals, everyone will be in front of the TV and thats the game Sachin will want to play, perform and win. But if Kolkata is playing Chennai in Mohali for a game, even 1/100 of the folks wont be interested. The number of people watching the dream team play Portugal in an olympics will be far more than those who follow a Bulls Vs Lakers playoff. Did you know that a few years back, the US woman's soccer team winning rated higher viewership than many national league games ?

Yes, anyone and everyone who has followed football (stop calling it "soccer") knows about the '86 game. I have the entire recording on VHS. You are clueless. Do you have any idea how much the Premiership makes by selling TV rights ? Do you know how much clubs like Manchester United and Liverpool are valued at ? No, you don't. "A Brazilian president" WTF ? Brazil also comes to a standstill during the Carioca, Paulista championships so i don't really know what you are getting at there. People support their CLUBS FIRST, COUNTRIES SECOND. US women's soccer team example is useless because MLS has been existent only since 1996 - unlike European club football which has been played for god knows how long. Viewership figures don't matter, since international football is a media hyped, marketed spectacle which takes place every 2 years so. It just doesn't have the passion that club football does. The players themselves say they would rather win something for their club then for their country. Francesco Totti won a World Cup with Italy in '96 but he said he would rather win a Champions League for Roma then even a corner for Italy. I am not gonna bother continuing this discussion because you clearly lack all sense of perspective on this subject and you won't be able to appreciate what i say because you don't follow football, so why don't you do something to educate yourself. Go to any football forum populated by match-going fans, register and ask them a simple question - club or country ? Tell me what they say. Try http://www.forums.redissue.co.uk/ http://www.kumb.com/forum/index.php http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/ http://forums.cfcnet.co.uk/index.php?showforum=7

[IndianRenegade]

^^ If any1 remembers the "Didi's No Stop Nonsense" that came on Television in India, can you remember if there was a Didi episode where he imitates a leading goalkeeper? That waz hilarious! Dieter Hallervorden! (thatz didi :D)

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: The way he becomes a hero for stopping a goal, when in reality he tries to take a beer can thrown by an angry fan was funny!