Try Pant as an opener

[vvvslaxman]

25 minutes ago, zen said:

The FACT is that Ind would not miss Rohit in key events if we go by recent records .... Guys like Pant have more potential 

Based on your filter theory  Kohli 3 matches against Australia in ICC trophy averaging 12.50. So we should drop him against Australia.  Kohli 2 matches against England in ICC trophy  averaing 25.00. So we should drop him against England. Nice theory. I am glad they won't be using filters to make team selection. You will end up with Ravindra Jadeja opening with Rahane. 

[zen]

25 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Based on your filter theory  Kohli 3 matches against Australia in ICC trophy averaging 12.50. So we should drop him against Australia.  Kohli 2 matches against England in ICC trophy  averaing 25.00. So we should drop him against England. Nice theory. I am glad they won't be using filters to make team selection. You will end up with Ravindra Jadeja opening with Rahane. 

Those are the things people who do not understand the filters applied will deduce (the stats would have Kohli’s numbers too) .... And you have shown that you struggle with even basic cricket stats so not the ideal person to be discussing this 

 

Thanks for the laughs though!

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

Those are the things people who do not understand the filters applied will deduce (the stats would have Kohli’s numbers too) .... And you have shown that you struggle with even basic cricket stats so not the ideal person to be discussing this 

 

Thanks for the laughs though!

 

 

 

 

1

Those are stats based on "convenient filters" not basic stats. Basic stats shouldn't involve so many filters.  combining randomly 4 teams named (SENA) Between the 4 teams only one team has ever won a world cup. SENA was used to mainly assess test performance in those countries against them. You cannot arbitrarily use the SENA filter for world cup one day match. There is no real connection here.

[flamy]

lol wats with the ad hominem fanboy accusations?

 

Pant is not opening, fellow can hardly hold his head together when he comes in to bat, and you are asking him to face the new ball which is the only time ball can move a little bit.

 

The two test 100s he got, he had ample cushion with the top order setting up the platform. In LOIs, he has shown no temperament. He is a hack until he misses 15 balls, and his brain settles down.

 

I don't care for Noheet's slow going, but these are who we have, and they have done well enough. I would just like them to play Rahul already to see where he's at.

 

[zen]

After failing in first to games in this series, Tuktuk Sharma will be hoping to get an extremely flat track somewhere in the bilateral series to pad up his stats  

 

[Khota]

No. Opener should be one of these four only: Dhawan, Rohit, Rahul and aggarwal. Pant is not close enough to these four.

[zen]

Just now, Khota said:

No. Opener should be one of these four only: Dhawan, Rohit, Rahul and aggarwal. Pant is not close enough to these four.

Agarwal is not being considered for WC so far. KL only came into discussion recently with some good hitting in T20s. He can be a good option too 

[Khota]

20 minutes ago, zen said:

Agarwal is not being considered for WC so far. KL only came into discussion recently with some good hitting in T20s. He can be a good option too 

It is way too late to try a new combination for opening slot. I am very comfortable with what india has right now.

[zen]

7 minutes ago, Khota said:

It is way too late to try a new combination for opening slot. I am very comfortable with what india has right now.

Would you prefer Ind to fail? 

[Khota]

14 minutes ago, zen said:

Would you prefer Ind to fail? 

Absolutely not but India now has to pick one of the four. I do not like too much uncertainty this late. Plus the negative for Pant is that he is too young for my liking. I like experienced players to open.

[zen]

After hitting the 100 vs Aus in a bilateral, Rohit has been poor:

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Start of match date greater than or equal to 13 Jan 2019

Batting position between 1 and 8

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 40

Ordered by batting strike rate (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 9 of 9

First Previous

Next  Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
HH Pandya	3	2	0	61	45	30.50	42	145.23	0	0	0	6	5
KD Karthik	4	3	2	63	38*	63.00	55	114.54	0	0	1	7	1
KM Jadhav	8	6	3	210	81*	70.00	218	96.33	0	2	0	23	2
MS Dhoni	7	6	4	250	87*	125.00	280	89.28	0	3	1	17	4
V Kohli	7	7	0	458	116	65.42	517	88.58	2	1	0	38	4
V Shankar	6	2	0	91	46	45.50	105	86.66	0	0	0	9	1
S Dhawan	9	9	1	264	75*	33.00	334	79.04	0	2	1	32	1
AT Rayudu	8	8	2	245	90	40.83	318	77.04	0	1	1	24	6
RG Sharma	9	9	0	258	87	28.66	377	68.43	0	2	1	21	7

 

• Lowest avg and SR in bilaterals, where he tends to do relatively well 

Edited March 7, 2019 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

After hitting the 100 vs Aus in a bilateral, Rohit has been poor:

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Start of match date greater than or equal to 13 Jan 2019

Batting position between 1 and 8

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 40

Ordered by batting strike rate (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 9 of 9

First Previous

Next  Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
HH Pandya	3	2	0	61	45	30.50	42	145.23	0	0	0	6	5
KD Karthik	4	3	2	63	38*	63.00	55	114.54	0	0	1	7	1
KM Jadhav	8	6	3	210	81*	70.00	218	96.33	0	2	0	23	2
MS Dhoni	7	6	4	250	87*	125.00	280	89.28	0	3	1	17	4
V Kohli	7	7	0	458	116	65.42	517	88.58	2	1	0	38	4
V Shankar	6	2	0	91	46	45.50	105	86.66	0	0	0	9	1
S Dhawan	9	9	1	264	75*	33.00	334	79.04	0	2	1	32	1
AT Rayudu	8	8	2	245	90	40.83	318	77.04	0	1	1	24	6
RG Sharma	9	9	0	258	87	28.66	377	68.43	0	2	1	21	7

 

• Lowest avg and SR in bilaterals, where he tends to do relatively well 

Let me share T20 stats of INdia for the last 2 years. Based on this he is worse than Pandey, Raina, Dhoni. Shankar, Karthik. So if were to have a world T20 instead of world cup you would recommend dropping Pant?  You are using 45 day worth of stat to prove your point. I am using 2 year worth. Larger sample.

 

[zen]

11 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Let me share T20 stats of INdia for the last 2 years. Based on this he is worse than Pandey, Raina, Dhoni. Shankar, Karthik. So if were to have a world T20 instead of world cup you would recommend dropping Pant?  You are using 45 day worth of stat to prove your point. I am using 2 year worth. Larger sample.

 

As I said, you should not be commenting on stats. But the worst part is that you do not even understand the context 

 

Pant is considered on potential, which people believe that he has. Rohit Sharma is an experienced player with over 100 international games in various formats .... Do you want me to put Rohit's stats in his first two years in ODIs?  

 

Keep trying! 

Edited March 7, 2019 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

As I said, you should not be commenting on stats. But the worst part is that you do not even understand the context 

 

Pant is considered on potential, which people believe that he has. Rohit Sharma is an experienced player with over 100 international games in various formats .... Do you want me to put Rohit's stats in his first two years in ODIs?  

 

Keep trying! 

Well i don't see any potential here. He pretty much struggled in every match in the beginning before even connecting one. . Fact that you think he can walk into a side purely as a batsman ahead of so many promising youngsters with these stats underlines your inability to assess the potential. You bring up Tests to back up his "potential". Shouldn't you use T20 format which is a lot closer to ODI than Tests as a basis to assess him?  He is not even the 2nd best in the under-19 team. One would put Gill, Shaw ahead of them. Pant is in the radar only because he is a keeper. Nobody even remotely is talking about him as a pure batsman. India has 4 proper bowlers (who are also 4 proper tailenders). 5th bowler is Jadhav who is less than a part timer for his own state. So India needs 6th bowler. That will be Shankar. As it is we have hopeless fielders like Chahal, Jadhav, Rayudu, Bumrah. Why would they add another one in the form of Pant.  He is only in the radar to be included in the squad only because KKD as usual fluffed million chances once again.

[zen]

10 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Well i don't see any potential here.

That is your problem. 

 

Quote

He pretty much struggled in every match in the beginning before even connecting one. . Fact that you think he can walk into a side purely as a batsman ahead of so many promising youngsters with these stats underlines your inability to assess the potential. You bring up Tests to back up his "potential". Shouldn't you use T20 format which is a lot closer to ODI than Tests as a basis to assess him?  He is not even the 2nd best in the under-19 team. One would put Gill, Shaw ahead of them. Pant is in the radar only because he is a keeper. Nobody even remotely is talking about him as a pure batsman. India has 4 proper bowlers (who are also 4 proper tailenders). 5th bowler is Jadhav who is less than a part timer for his own state. So India needs 6th bowler. That will be Shankar. As it is we have hopeless fielders like Chahal, Jadhav, Rayudu, Bumrah. Why would they add another one in the form of Pant.  He is only in the radar to be included in the squad only because KKD as usual fluffed million chances once again.

Read the OP, which clearly defines the scope of the discussion 

 

"With Ind slotted to go into its last international engagement before the WC19 vs Aus to play 2 T20s and 5 ODIs, it is an opportunity for Ind to take new initiatives to strengthen its case for another WC title 

 

 

One initiative would be to try Pant as the opener. But why Pant?

• Because he has the explosive game to take advantage of the PPs on batting friendly surfaces in Eng where par scores are expected to be 300+ (Eng has an RPO of 6.4 in Eng since 2016. This translates to a score of 320). On batting friendly surfaces, ideally, a team should try to be par RPO + 1 in PP. If par RPO is 6.4, we should be around 75 in the first 10    
• Pant is also expected to be in the WC squad. It appears as if Shaw and Agarwal are not being considered"

 

As already mentioned, You do not have a clue of what is being discussed, how to read stats, or the context 

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, zen said:

That is your problem. 

 

Read the OP, which clearly defines the scope of the discussion 

 

"With Ind slotted to go into its last international engagement before the WC19 vs Aus to play 2 T20s and 5 ODIs, it is an opportunity for Ind to take new initiatives to strengthen its case for another WC title 

 

 

One initiative would be to try Pant as the opener. But why Pant?

• Because he has the explosive game to take advantage of the PPs on batting friendly surfaces in Eng where par scores are expected to be 300+ (Eng has an RPO of 6.4 in Eng since 2016. This translates to a score of 320). On batting friendly surfaces, ideally, a team should try to be par RPO + 1 in PP. If par RPO is 6.4, we should be around 75 in the first 10    
• Pant is also expected to be in the WC squad. It appears as if Shaw and Agarwal are not being considered"

 

As already mentioned, You do not have a clue of what is being discussed, how to read stats, or the context 

YOu are stuck in 90s come out of it. Apart from England who can afford to throw their wickets away nobody is trying to be "explosive"Because they don't load their side with XI hacks.  As an FYI India has the second highest batting RPO in the last 2 years . Inspite of all that India has a much better win loss ratio over the last 2 years because India doesn't load up their side with 11 batsmen. What is the point? INdia is only three points behind England now. If they clean sweep Australia they will be no.1 ODI side in the world. So stop trying to fix that is not broken (stolen from  @flamy )

 

[vvvslaxman]

Inspite of doing lot of experimentation like resting Bumrah for several matches, resting Kohli for several matches, playing c string side against lower ranked side India still has a much better W/L ratio than any other team in the last 2 years

[vvvslaxman]

You know the price England pays for playing so many batsmen so that everyone can keep hacking right till the end? This is what. Look at the average ER compared to India.

 

 

[zen]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

YOu are stuck in 90s come out of it. Apart from England who can afford to throw their wickets away nobody is trying to be "explosive"Because they don't load their side with XI hacks.  As an FYI India has the second highest batting RPO in the last 2 years . Inspite of all that India has a much better win loss ratio over the last 2 years because India doesn't load up their side with 11 batsmen. What is the point? INdia is only three points behind England now. If they clean sweep Australia they will be no.1 ODI side in the world. So stop trying to fix that is not broken (stolen from  @flamy )

 

 

Irrelevant points as:

• The tourney is in Eng, where tracks will be batting friendly 
• Pant is not a key wkt and can be used to set the tempo
• Rohit Sharma is a failure vs major teams in ICC/world events
• Rohit Sharma form is a concern
• On potential, Pant is better than Rohit, who struggled big time in MO and continues to do so in tests outside Ind. Similarly, Pant or anyone else with more potential can be a success opening in ODIs  
• And lastly discussing is about improving

 

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Inspite of doing lot of experimentation like resting Bumrah for several matches, resting Kohli for several matches, playing c string side against lower ranked side India still has a much better W/L ratio than any other team in the last 2 years

• Other teams are experimenting too 
• Many do not doubt Ind's prowess in bilaterals esp. against lower ranked sides
• Games have been won because of bowling too 
• Currently, an almost full strength side is huffing and puffing against a relatively young Aus 

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Irrelevant points as:

• The tourney is in Eng, where tracks will be batting friendly 
• Pant is not a key wkt and can be used to set the tempo
• Rohit Sharma is a failure vs major teams in ICC/world events
• Rohit Sharma form is a concern
• On potential, Pant is better than Rohit, who struggled big time in MO and continues to do so in tests outside Ind. Similarly, Pant or anyone else with more potential can be a success opening in ODIs  
• And lastly discussing is about improving

 

• Other teams are experimenting too 
• Many do not doubt Ind's prowess in bilaterals esp. against lower ranked sides
• Games have been won because of bowling too 
• Currently, an almost full strength side is huffing and puffing against a relatively young Aus 

CT happened in ENgland . ENgland boasted pretty much the same line up. What happened then? So that is very relevant. England failed on both occasions. An asian team own twice. Infact in the last CT 3 of the semi finalists were Asian teams. So stop working out theories from cricinfo stats alone. India was the only team to reach CT final last 2 occasions. They reached world cup semi in 2015 . They only lost to eventual winner on their home ground. NO shame in that. It is teams like England/NZ/SA they have to pull up their socks.

Edited March 7, 2019 by vvvslaxman