Islamophobia VS Kafirophobia ::: Media VS Quran/Sharia

[Alam_dar]

16 minutes ago, I6MTW said:

One of the muslim men who lost one of their loved ones. 

 

Please understand, it is not about an individual person. There may be a lot of Muslims who may be much better human being than us as individuals. 

 

Here we are talking about the problem on the Community level i.e. the influence of the Kafirophobia. 

 

You see, Imran Khan and Erdogan pointed out the disease of Islamophobia. Muslims have no problems with it while they claim that at community level this problem exists. We say welcome to their criticism and accept that indeed the problem of Islamophobia is present and indeed there are Westerner people who fear Islam, and thus they indeed turned against the Muslims too. 

 

But why when we criticize the Muslim community due to the Kafirophobia, then you don't welcome it? Why when we tell you that many Muslims are becoming killers due to Kafirophobia, while others are not integrating to this same Kafirophobia, then you deny us? 

 

Thus, my original question still stays there, what is the source of this Kafirophobia? 

 

You told us that Media was the source of Islamophobia. But what is the source of Kafirophobia? Please answer this simple question. 

[mishra]

1 hour ago, I6MTW said:

One of the muslim men who lost one of their loved ones. 

Well, Here in UK, When Osama was killed, There was this Muslim Priest (Gujrati Indian and my acquaintance) who was shopping with his family in traditional attire of long white robe and Burqa clad wife. A White guy confronted him and said. "Do you Know we got him?"

 

He narrated this to me, My initial reaction was laugh at stupidity, then codemn the act as racist. Later on I thought, Isnt his religion itself responsible for attracting such comments. BTW, I am certain that the person who confronted him is most like living on Benefit Street.

 

My thumb rule is. In case of Islam, Some of Its follower are good, not the religion itself

Edited March 19, 2019 by mishra

[Alam_dar]

44 minutes ago, mishra said:

My thumb rule is. In case of Islam, Some of Its follower are good, not the religion itself

Exactly. 

And my war is against the religion. If it is demolished, or even compelled to reform, then automatically this Kafirophobia and all the evils related to it will come to an end. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Alam_dar

[sukhoi]

On 3/18/2019 at 1:08 AM, Alam_dar said:

Imran Khan and Erdogan and Muslims are saying that Media is responsible for the hatred against the Muslims. 

But very important question: "Who filled Muslims with hatred against the European Culture and Values and thus the innocent Europeans have been killed many times more by the Muslims?

You blame the Media. 

But the Western People blame Quran and the Sharia to be brainwashing the Muslim youth and filling them with hatred and turning them into the killing Machines.

According to them, it is the Quran and Sharia which filled Muslims with KAFIROPHOBIA.

 

It is this Kafirophobia, propagated by Quran/Sharia which is making:

 

(1) Hugest numbers of terrorists among the Muslims.

(2) And stopping the Muslims masses to integrate into the Western society, but to make Ghettos and separate group which compels their young boys and girls only to marry among the Muslims, and to consider westerners as Kafirs. 

(3) Their madness to impose the Sharia in the West, by making more and more children. 

 

I just hope some leader gets the ball and tell these facts to Imran Khan and Erdogan, and all the Muslims who weep all the time for Islamophobia. 

 

Respect you sir, 

Having this thought and living in Pakistan -

 

It all comes to the main failure by European nations - MULTI CULTURALISM IS A FAILURE, Europeans thought process before 3 to 4 decades, keeping Multi Cuturalism in their country will prosper their country to good growth, has back fired big time as the sections did not integrate with the main stream and wanted their own set of rules which is been followed by their forefathers in which they have been brought up.

 

Europe created this by their own, the only option would be there would be India/Pakistan = 1947, on Europe it may be in the coming decade or 2 to 3 decades after, Europe will eventually go through Ind/PAK = 1947

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by sukhoi

[Muloghonto]

5 hours ago, sukhoi said:

Respect you sir, 

Having this thought and living in Pakistan -

 

It all comes to the main failure by European nations - MULTI CULTURALISM IS A FAILURE, Europeans thought process before 3 to 4 decades, keeping Multi Cuturalism in their country will prosper their country to good growth, has back fired big time as the sections did not integrate with the main stream and wanted their own set of rules which is been followed by their forefathers in which they have been brought up.

 

Europe created this by their own, the only option would be there would be India/Pakistan = 1947, on Europe it may be in the coming decade or 2 to 3 decades after, Europe will eventually go through Ind/PAK = 1947

Multiculturalism is a stunning success. Do you see Sikhs,Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, Indians, Latinos, Caribbean-ers, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc. having problems with society ?!? No. They are not. Only muslims and that too, a small fraction of them. 

[sukhoi]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Multiculturalism is a stunning success. Do you see Sikhs,Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, Indians, Latinos, Caribbean-ers, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc. having problems with society ?!? No. They are not. Only muslims and that too, a small fraction of them. 

Simple rule a pinch of poison spoils the whole pot of food.

 

yes it became a failure

[sukhoi]

8 minutes ago, sukhoi said:

Simple rule a pinch of poison spoils the whole pot of good food.

 

yes it became a failure

 

[Muloghonto]

16 minutes ago, sukhoi said:

Simple rule a pinch of poison spoils the whole pot of food.

 

yes it became a failure

so learn to avoid the poison and make a superior product. If our ancestors took the same attitude, our food would be as bland as white people food, as we'd have avoided all the spices for the few poisonous ones that exist......

As the saying goes, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater because the water is dirty...

Edited March 19, 2019 by Muloghonto

[straight_drive]

so learn to avoid the poison and make a superior product. If our ancestors took the same attitude, our food would be as bland as white people food, as we'd have avoided all the spices for the few poisonous ones that exist......

As the saying goes, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater because the water is dirty...

Our ancestors avoided the poison, really

Happened in 1947
Happening in J & K

Do not think it can be avoided when the poison is infested in your body, our ancestors got used to live with it and have already lost some part of their body becoz of it, but Europe are not till now.





Sent from my SM-J701F using Tapatalk

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, straight_drive said:

Our ancestors avoided the poison, really

Happened in 1947
Happening in J & K

Do not think it can be avoided when the poison is infested in your body, our ancestors got used to live with it and have already lost some part of their body becoz of it, but Europe are not till now.





Sent from my SM-J701F using Tapatalk
 

again, muslims are one ingridient of the multicultural world and in effect, global spreading, not much CURRENTLY- with less than 3% of people outside the muslim world in MOST places of the world ( and still below 20% in India), they do NOT represent a major component of multicularalism, that you are saying its a failure and throwing millions of indian, chinese, latino etc. under the bus. brilliant.

 

[Mariyam]

On 3/19/2019 at 4:24 AM, panther said:

I can't read urdu

Out of curiosity, can you read Pashto or Arabic?

[Mariyam]

On 3/19/2019 at 6:39 AM, Alam_dar said:

Ok, then let me translate:

 

 

Narrated Huthayfa bin Al-Yaman…

He [Muhammad] said to me, "O Huthayfa, go and infiltrate the people [the armies against the Muslims] and see what they're up to, and don't say a word until you return."

So I went and infiltrated the people while the winds and the soldiers of Allah were doing what they were doing – not leaving them [the armies] any cauldron or fire or structure. So Abu Sufyan bin Harb stood up and said, "O ye people of Quraysh, let every person check and see the person sitting next to him [in fear of spies]."

So I took the hand of the man next to me and said, "Who are you?"

He replied, "I am someone the son of someone."

So Abu Sufyan said, "O ye people of Quraysh, by Allah your [current] dwelling isn't a place to be dwelled in [meaning that their current situation is bad]; the horses [and camels, mules, etc..] have died, Bani Qurayza has turned us down - we received from them what we don't like [meaning they refused to let them in through their fortresses], and this wind is giving us what you see [a hard time]. By Allah, our cauldrons aren't standing, the fires aren't lasting, and the structures aren't holding. So retreat for I am retreating." (Musnad Ahmad, Number 2283)

 

Muslim Ulama declared this tradition to be SAHIH (i.e. Authentic). Link.

 

 

Remember, there was no trench in the area of Banu Qurayzah. If they really wanted to deceive Muslims, then they only had to allow the 10,000 strong army of Meccans to attack the Muslims from their side. But they didn't. But still Muhammad slaughtered them all. 

The last part in bold is not mentioned in the Urdu text you quoted.

[Mariyam]

On 3/18/2019 at 12:10 PM, Alam_dar said:

Problem is the misuse and abuse of the Western System by the Muslims. 

 

West didn't enforced the Muslims to come in millions to their countries and apply for asylum. Muslims did it at their own. And then they started hating the Western society due to the disease of Kafirophobia. 

 

Can someone imagine if a Christian stands up in Pakistan along with the banners of "No Sharia" , or "Shrari go to Hell"? What will Pakistani Muslims do with that Christian? 

 

But Muslims are doing the same thing in the Western countries and abusing the same System which fed them and which provided them with the shelter. 

 

As compared to Europe, we have India where there are 150 million Muslims are present, but Saffron brigade gave such Danda to these Muslims that no one shout for "Impose Sharia", but all the Mislims and the Mullahs of Deoband are shouting only "We want Secularism, We want Secularism". 

 

Not that I agree with the tactics of Saffron brigade, but in this case they are right when they placed the Muslim terrorism to it's actual place. 

 

And same thing is going to happen in the West too, and Muslims have to pay definitely. In China too, they have already been paying. 

 

Why do you compare what some Muslims in the West (Europe, mainly) do to what happens in India?

Muslims have been in India for 1000+ years. In Western Europe for 3 generations. The comparison is completely flawed.

 

The call for Sharia in India is muffled, not because of the Saffron brigade's danda as you crudely put it, but because most of the Muslims wouldn't want the Sharia imposed on themselves. A section of the teenagers, high on hormones are the only demographic here who would want the Sharia here, and after a few years of real struggle; ie work/family they go back to watching Salman Khan Eid blockbusters and carrying on with life.

 

And what is with all this "Muslims have to pay" hokum. Crime, like salvation is individual. Not collective.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Mariyam

[mishra]

^ in Lebnon too, Muslim lived for thousands of years. 

Also

 

It has been scientifically proven that testosterone is directly linked to winning in combat sports 

Edited March 20, 2019 by mishra

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

The last part in bold is not mentioned in the Urdu text you quoted.

For this part, please see other history books, according to which there was no trench dug where the Banu Qurayzah resided. The Trench was dug only on the North and North West side of Madina. Here is the map:

 

https://ur.wikipedia.org/wiki/غزوہ_خندق

 مدینہ کے اردگرد پہاڑ تھے اور گھر ایک دوسرے سے متصل تھے جو ایک قدرتی دفاعی فصیل کا کام کرتے تھے۔ ایک جگہ کوہِ عبید ہ اور کوہ راتج کے درمیان میں سے حملہ ہو سکتا تھا اس لیے وہاں خندق کھودنے کا فیصلہ کیا گیا۔ اس کی کھدائی میں حضور صلی اللہ علیہ و آلہ وسلم سمیت سب لوگ شریک ہوئے۔

 

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Why do you compare what some Muslims in the West (Europe, mainly) do to what happens in India?

Muslims have been in India for 1000+ years. In Western Europe for 3 generations. The comparison is completely flawed.

Believe me, it has absolutely nothing to do with how many years one is residing at any place.

If religion could make Muslims blind who are living in advanced and educated European countries, then surely the same religion could have more fatal results in the non-educated areas like India. 

But if we don't see this in the present India, but instead of this we are watching even Mullahs of Deoband, raising slogans of "Long live Secularism", then it is not due to the religion of Islam, but due to the external reasons. 

 

2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

The call for Sharia in India is muffled, not because of the Saffron brigade's danda as you crudely put it, but because most of the Muslims wouldn't want the Sharia imposed on themselves. A section of the teenagers, high on hormones are the only demographic here who would want the Sharia here, and after a few years of real struggle; ie work/family they go back to watching Salman Khan Eid blockbusters and carrying on with life.

Is there any difference between the Indian Muslim and a Pakistani Muslim? Do you know that 90% Pakistani Muslims want absolutely imposition of the Sharia upon themselves and upon the others? 

 

You said that Indian Muslim don't want Sharia to be imposed on him. But why then Pakistani Muslim want to impose the Shari upon himself and the others? 

 

I am not saying that you are wrong about the Indian Muslims. You may be absolutely correct that Indian Muslims perhaps don't want Sharia. But this change didn't occur in one day, but Indian Muslims evolved in this way (different than Pakistan Muslims) due to the "external" pressures. 

 

You could not even imagine how the Deobandi Mullahs and followers behave in Pakistan. Even if some liberal asks to not to impose the 14 centuries old Sharia law, then they immediately issue a fatwa of Kufr against such person. Result is this that not only 90% want Sharia themselves, but they have frightened the rest of minorities and 10% that they don't have any courage to even speak up for the Secular laws. 

 

And the main reason is this that Religious Teachings are very clear that no other laws will be accepted than the Sharia laws. I will make a new post upon it in order to clear all the religious teachings regarding this issue. 

 

2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

And what is with all this "Muslims have to pay" hokum. Crime, like salvation is individual. Not collective.

Off course you are right, and I fully agree with you. 

But I am not stating my own opinion here, but I am stating the harsh ground realities of what is going to happen on the field. 

And harsh reality is this that once the wave of Right Wing Extremism starts in Europe, and gets popularity, then they will definitely (and very unfortunately) go for the Collective Punishment of the Muslim community. 

 

It will be the same as in India, or as in Burma. 

 

I absolutely don't wish any Collective Punishment, which is against the Humanity.

 

I oppose this European right wing extremism, I oppose the Saffron brigade in India, I oppose extremist Buddhists. But situation is not in the control of the European Left Wing, which has become weaker due to the killings of European citizens by extremist Muslims and due to the misuse of the Western System by these extremist Muslims. 

 

If we want to make the Left Wing of Europe again stronger, then the only path goes where the Kafirophobia should end, and the Muslim community should integrate with the European society. But it this Kafirophobia does not end, then right wing will surely take the control sooner or later.