Was Ian Botham in his peak the best of all all-rounders and overall where did he rank??

[Harsh Thakor]

In peak period arguably no cricketer of his era turned the complexion of a game as much as the legendary Ian Botham who at his best created the impact of Greek God Hercules.Whether fielding,batting or bowling Botham exuded an energy few cricketers ever did like a spark lighting and at his best created the impact of a hurricane.When England were in the depths of despair Botham was simply cometh the hour cometh the man.He ressurected England from the grave to reach the pinnacle of glory both in the Jubilee test at Mumbai in 1980 and the 1981 Ashes.No all-rounder has ever equalled those performances of Botham,including Sobers,which gave vibration sof intervention of the divine.Botham hit the ball as hard as Viv Richards carrying the bat like a bludgeon and swung the bal more prodigiously than any bowler at his best .No bowler was more intelligent than Botham at his best and before Adam Gilchrist no no 7 batsmen was ever as agressive or technically sound.Botham defined English cricket more than anyone in the post-war period .Gary Sobers posessed more skill with bat and ball or maybe even Keith Miller but for pure flair Botham was the ultimate man and debatably the best match-winner.Imagine scoring 149 n.o after England were precariously placed at 133-7 at Leeds v Australia needing still 92 runs to avoid an innings defeat and subsequently capturing 5 wickets for merely 1 run with Australia cantering home to a 151 run target only 37 runs adrift with 5 wickets remaining.In the Jubilee test in Mumbai England were in the doldrums at 58.5 before Botham launched a counter-attack scoring 114.He also captured 13 wickets and thus took all-round cricketing performance  or skill to  a height never reached before,in regions of the divine.He was overshadowed in 1982 by Kapil and Imran but neverthless enabled England to win both the series v India and Pakistan.In 1984 he ressurected his old charm against the the best team of all time West Indies at Lords taking 8-103 and scoring 81.Versus India with the bat Botham was an epitome of consistency but not so successful against Pakistan.Botham championed the cause more than anyone v Australia,particularly at home and in 1985 blossomed again to take 31 wickets and score over 300 runs.In 1986-87 he played a major role in England winning the Ashes down under with a century and a 5wicket haul.He proved agin tahe nobody was his equal as a  match-wining all-rounder witrh both bat and ball.Botham scored a hundred and took 5 wickets in the same match 5 times which none has ever done.Kallis,Mushtaq Muhammad and Gary Sobers have only done it twice.Botham was also a spectacular slip catcher ,grabbing the hardest catches.

 

Botham's drawback was that he failed against the best team of his day,West Indies Unlike Imran,Hadlee and Kapil Dev he never scored a century against them and had very few 5 wicket hauls.Botham also benefited from playing against weakened teams without WSC players like Pakistan in 1978 and Australia in 1978-79 and 1977 at home.Maybe the pressure of captaincy affected him in 1980 and 1980-81 home and away against West Indies but then look how well Kapil Dev performed and later Imran.

 

Neverthless Botham bowled magnificiently against a strong Australian batting line up in 1979-80 away and scored an unbeaten century facing the likes of Lillee at Melbourne.He also tore the likes of Geoff Lawson and Craig Mcdermott or even Richard Hadlee with the bat and often made batsmen like Sunil Gavaskar his bunny.

 

The likes of Gary Sobers ranked Botham as the best of the 4 all-rounders of his time but below Keith Miller.Mike Procter ranked Botham only behind Sobers and Kallis while amongst all-rounders as a cricketer overall Cristopher Martin Jenkins rated Botham  blow Miller,Sobers and Imran Geoff Armstrong ranked him below Sobers,Imran and Hadlee while John Woodcock placed him only behind Sobers.In selection of all-time xi's by cricketers Saed Anwar,Mike Procter,Richard Hadlee,Barry Richards,Dean Jones,Dilip Vengsarkar,Abdul Qadir etc chose Botham in the all-time xi.Dean Jones rated Botham as the best all-round cricketer he ever saw while Martin Crowe and umpire Dickie Bird rated him only 2nd to Sobers.Personally I think Botham at his best was 2nd to only Sobers and overall behind Sobers and Miller.Amongst cricketers overall Armstrong ranked him in 18th place , Martin Jenkins at no18 and Woodcock at no 10.

 

He fell out on consistency in comparison with Sobers,Miller or Imran.I feel he had much more of an 'x' factor than Jacques Kallis and was a better match-winner.Kallis has the best figures of any all-rounder ever but was never at his best with both bat and ball together and not as dynamic as Kapil or Imran.To replace Sobers at no 6 in a team I would prefer Botham to Imran or Kallis but to accompany Sobers in an all-time xi I would prefer Imran to anyone.At no 7 in a world xi because of his prowess as a fast bowler I may choose Imran over Botham and Kapil as fast bowlers are greater match-winners.Imran had better statistics than Botham but was unlike Ian not at his best with both bat and ball.Ian was more explosive or dynamic batsmen than Imran or Kallis.Arguably in the view of a few the early Ian Botham was more of a match-winner than even Sobers .To turn the game with both bat and ball I feel after Sobers Botham wa sthe ultimate man.After capturing 5 wickets I would bet on Botham to score a fifty or a hundred more than anyone in his time or even later.Botahm also revealed talent in ODI's being a match-winner with b at and ball in the triangular series down under in 1986-87,opening the batting.

 

A career of two distinct halves

	Runs	Average	100s/ 50s	Wickets	Average	5WI/ 10WM
First 51 Tests	2833	38.80	11/ 10	231	23.06	19/ 4
Next 37 Tests	1976	31.36	3/ 11	135	33.85	8/ 0
Last 14 Tests	391	20.57	0/ 1	17	57.52	0/ 0
Career (102 Tests)	5200	33.54	14/ 22	383	28.40	27/

 

During the six years when Botham was at his peak, he was the best of the four allrounders going around during that period. Imran Khan, Kapil Dev and Richard Hadlee were tremendous too - though Hadlee's best was to come later - but none of them matched Botham's consistency with bat and ball. During this period, the difference between Botham's batting and bowling average was 12.59. Imran and Hadlee had better bowling averages, but neither matched Botham as a batsman (though Imran's best as a batsman was to come later).

 

The four leading allrounders between Jan 1977 and Dec 1982

Player	Tests	Runs	Average	100s/ 50s	Wickets	Average	5WI/ 10WM	Diff in ave
Ian Botham	58	3229	37.11	11/ 13	262	24.52	20/ 4	12.59
Imran Khan	37	1429	29.16	1/ 4	186	21.79	13/ 3	7.37
Kapil Dev	44	1904	32.82	2/ 11	172	29.68	13/ 1	3.14
Richard Hadlee	23	767	21.91	1/ 4	114	23.22	11/ 2	-1.31

Edited May 1, 2019 by Harsh Thakor

[gazza]

Botham was awesome at his peak, as far as someone performing at the same time both as a batsman and a bowler and you can add in his slip fielding to that, I’m not sure anyone has been better. 

 

A real shame procter didn’t play more international cricket and same with Clive rice, procter especially I think would’ve given botham a real run for his money.

 

imran did well over his career as a whole with regards to batting and bowling, sobers did well as far as being the most rounded allrounder if that makes sense as he could bowl two types of spin, bowl pace/swing, was an exceptional fielder and batsman as well but his bowling i don’t think ever reached the peaks of a botham or imran or Hadlee for example.

 

the incredible thing about botham is the amount of 5fers and centuries he was able to produce, if you were to blank out his averages you would think that with that many 5fers that he was an all time great bowler, and if you were to add his centuries to that you would probably comfortably place him as the #1 all rounder of all time.

 

Kapil’s impact as a batsman’s ith his high strike rate and his ability to bowl long spells is also a speciality not to be forgotten.

 

shout out to kallis and pollock who were incredible as well.

 

chris cairns not bad either, a player often forgotten in this discussion.

Edited May 1, 2019 by gazza

[Real McCoy]

Botham was the greatest allrounder in the history of cricket . Venky dont call me monkey Prasad and wjahatullah wasti comes a close second

[rtmohanlal]

Once again 'peak'  too is not all about avg:s alone  .Context  matters a lot.

These are the peak period data of both players:

 

 Ian Botham peak period - 24 feb 78  to  27 aug 82

 

            inns NO runs  avg:    balls  str:rate
  total    77  3   2941  39.74   4798   61.296       
     h      41  1   1637  40.925  2251   72.723  //from actual data of  42 inns, 1 last inns of '4 off 19 balls' vs Pakistan removed
     a      36  2  1304  38.35   2547   51.190
in Aus   16   1    478  31.86     993   48.1
in Ind      9   0    554  61.55     850   65.17
in NZL     3   1    186  93.00     433   42.95     
in sl         1   0      13  13.00       47   27.65     
in WI       7   0      73  10.42     224   32.58

 

Kapil dev peak period - 27 nov 81  to  4 mar 87 //str: rates of some inns not availabe
                inns NO runs  avg:  balls str:rate
        total 76     7  2507 36.33   //after removing 1 inns of '0 not out vs WI in WI',thus Kapil has 1 inns less than Botham in peak period
          h    40     4  1387 38.52     
          a     36    3 1120  33.94              //after removing 1 inns of '0 not out vs WI in WI'
    in Aus     3     0   135  45.00  172  78.48
    in Eng     9     1   373 46.62  330 113.03
    in Pak    11     1  230 23.00
    in   SL      6     0  128 21.33
    in WI       7     1   254 42.33            //after removing 1 inns of '0 not out '

In avg:s Kapil is not that far behind.And , though the ball count of a few inns of his is missing , his str: rate can be assumed as almost 81 . The notable difference in the data is Botham's pathetic average of mere 10.42  in WI in this peak period. Kapil rose himself to the heights of a genuine batsman  with an avg: of 42.33 & str: of almost 100. He scored even  almost 2 run a ball 100s.   So all things taken into account Kapil  was  better even in peak w.r.t batting.

 

In bowling too, though not much aware of the peak data of both, it is sure that  Kapil's work density & lack of support bowling strength  had effects on his peak period data too.So taking those into acoount , in bowling too there can't be much difference .
 

[Sooda]

Botham made a memorable debut in 1977 and ran amok in the next two years, averaging nearly 40 with the bat and just above 19 with the ball. However, it must be remembered that rampant-Botham coincided with the Packer years when Australia were a severely weakened side and Pakistan, against whom Botham scored at 70.66and took wickets at 16.07, had lost some of their frontline players to World Series Cricket. The 1981 Ashes was the pinnacle of Botham's allround powers as he tallied 399 runs, including hundreds at Headingley and Old Trafford, and 34 wickets in what is now known in English folklore as 'Botham's Ashes'.

 

Botham and Viv Richards got along famously as flatmates while playing at Somerset but the West Indies proved to be Botham's bogey team and the lack of a satisfactory record against cricket's team-to-beat at the time must be high up on Botham's wish-I-could-change-that list. He did not score a hundred against them and managed just four fifties in 20 games. His bowling against them wasn't too flash either, averaging a generous 35.18 and taking just three of his 27 five-wicket hauls. Botham had a terrible time in the Caribbean, where he averaged a paltry 14.17 in nine games with 38 being his highest score.

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/227056.html

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Sooda

[Straight Drive]

At his peak he was the best all-rounder. Headingley test of 1981was his best of the career. He was so brilliant that series that the series is knows as "Botham's Ashes". I doubt any other all-rounder has had a better single series than that.

 

Botham's issue was he had a verry poor start and a very poor end of career. But when he had his best time of his career, his best was simply unmatchable.

[rtmohanlal]

So much is talked of about Botham's peak and a lot of hype exists w.r.t it. But for me, Kapil's peak in batting was better .Even the stats I put forward in my  earlier msg: points to it. A  42.33 avg: in WI  with almost 2 run a ball 100s and at a str: of almost 100 in WI(GOAT team) where as Botham was reduced to disaster with a paltry 10.42 avg:  and that says a lot.

 

Even in bowling,  there was a difference of   huge 7.27 between the support bowling  strength avg:s of both these players w.r.t entire careers. That being the case, there is no doubt that  in that peak of Botham his support bowling strength was far better with ATG bowlers Bob Willis & Underwood to support him.Once both these bowlers retired  and then burdened with the responsibility of spearheading the attack , Botham   was reduced to a pale shadow of his peak self and that says a lot.