Who should bat at No.6, Kaify or Yuvraj??

[yoda]

Yuvraj vs Kaif in tests...Wow what a match deciding choice!

[Ram]

:hysterical: Who is mocking him in ODIs!?? Its Tests buddy, Tests we are talking about. Having said that, pick him for Test-2 in the 11 - I prefer Yuseless over Kaif-strokeless on Indian pitches. (the right thing would have been for someone other than YS or Kaif to have been in the 11) When it comes to away Tour Tests, Yuseless is even worse than Kaif. Really a question of Indian pitch or away Test series tour?

What do you mean 'its tests we are talking bout' ? Have you already forgotten his 160, which he scored 3 tests ago ? Its not like Australia is the watershed series for any player, the ultimate performance yardstick. Shane Warne is considered the world's best bowler EVER, and yet his record in India, traditionally the spinners' paradise, doesnt make good reading. Does that mean we discredit his contribution all together ? Anyways, I am very confident Yuvraj will prove all his doubters wrong in test cricket too. In 2004, he was written off from ODIs, he came back to become India's best ODI batsman in the last 30 months. He will show his mettle in test cricket too. And I dont agree he cant play in seaming tracks. 2 of 3 100s came when opposition pacers had dismissed our top order batsman with pace and swing and Yuvraj was the only batsman to come up with any sort of worthy response. Even his previous 100 against 100, came at a time Yasir Arafat had put us in trouble with some excellent seam bowling. Which is why, it is all the more confounding to think how such a talented player, who can literally put the bowlers and conditions out of the equation with his murderous strokeplay, can fail so badly in Australia, where he looked all at sea. My only explanation is that Yuvraj's performance, or the lack of it, was a one-off, a freak of an occurrence. Its like Ponting's 2001 Ind series, when he looked embarrassingly out of depth. And just like Ponting, Yuvraj will bounce back to prove his doubters wrong. We cant let his precious talent go waste.

[prince40]

yuvraj is way way talented over kaif and must play

[graphic23]

What do you mean 'its tests we are talking bout' ? Have you already forgotten his 160, which he scored 3 tests ago ? Its not like Australia is the watershed series for any player, the ultimate performance yardstick. Shane Warne is considered the world's best bowler EVER, and yet his record in India, traditionally the spinners' paradise, doesnt make good reading. Does that mean we discredit his contribution all together ? Anyways, I am very confident Yuvraj will prove all his doubters wrong in test cricket too. In 2004, he was written off from ODIs, he came back to become India's best ODI batsman in the last 30 months. He will show his mettle in test cricket too. And I dont agree he cant play in seaming tracks. 2 of 3 100s came when opposition pacers had dismissed our top order batsman with pace and swing and Yuvraj was the only batsman to come up with any sort of worthy response. Even his previous 100 against 100, came at a time Yasir Arafat had put us in trouble with some excellent seam bowling. Which is why, it is all the more confounding to think how such a talented player, who can literally put the bowlers and conditions out of the equation with his murderous strokeplay, can fail so badly in Australia, where he looked all at sea. My only explanation is that Yuvraj's performance, or the lack of it, was a one-off, a freak of an occurrence. Its like Ponting's 2001 Ind series, when he looked embarrassingly out of depth. And just like Ponting, Yuvraj will bounce back to prove his doubters wrong. We cant let his precious talent go waste.

I agree with you that Australia is not a be-all end-all series for any test player. It can be considered as a poor trip for Yuvraj. There is no doubt in my mind that Yuvraj has more talent than Kaif purely batting wise. But what was bothering me about his failures in Australia was (in Tests anyways), he never looked like a man who wanted to score higher than his 10-12 runs. The hunger was invisible. He usually looks pretty laid-back but I could tell that he wanted to change his form as far as ODis are concerned. He was fighting for his runs, and fighting for him form to come back. But in Test matches, he was giving wicket away needlessly. From one innings to another, there was no change in his attitude about how to make the runs. Dhoni was also a disappointment but atleast he fought for his runs. He looked like someone determined to change his string of low scores (whether or not he succeeded is another matter). He did better than Yuvraj in that aspect, and I feel until YS matures more about how to handle a failure in test innings and grind a bit more with respect to runs coming (i.e a Dravid like innings), he ought to play the FC games that are 3-day or 4-day.

[Bumper]

Let me get this straight. 1) Jaffer killed all bowlers in the subcontinent & flopped in Australia, but he is still a good player 2) Dhoni killed all bowlers in the subcontinent & flopped in Australia, but he is still a very gritty batsman. 3) Kaif got some useful runs in similar conditions, but never played in Australia. (Nevermind, he was a super flop in South Africa). So he must be very good. 4) Badri, Chopra, Gambhir et al never played against international teams in recent times, but have been a major hit at home, so they must be awesome prospects. 5) Yuvraj has piled on runs in the subcontinent, but failed in Australia. So he is absolutely useless, right ??? Lets agree that all the above folks are FTBs (tho, I'll exclude Chopra & Badri from the list, as they havent played much recently). They are all cr@p outside the subcontinent. So what are we gonna do ? Toss them away in conditions they are likely to succeed ? As i see it, I dont see how our team is gonna significantly improve by playing one over the other. Atleast if we ever get this dood Yuvraj to succeed at the test level, chances are that the gamble will pay a lot more dividends than playing someone else. Yuvraj will play in this series, in all likelihood & if he fails, boot him out for good.

[Ram]

I agree with you that Australia is not a be-all end-all series for any test player. It can be considered as a poor trip for Yuvraj. There is no doubt in my mind that Yuvraj has more talent than Kaif purely batting wise. But what was bothering me about his failures in Australia was (in Tests anyways), he never looked like a man who wanted to score higher than his 10-12 runs. The hunger was invisible. He usually looks pretty laid-back but I could tell that he wanted to change his form as far as ODis are concerned. He was fighting for his runs, and fighting for him form to come back. But in Test matches, he was giving wicket away needlessly. From one innings to another, there was no change in his attitude about how to make the runs. Dhoni was also a disappointment but atleast he fought for his runs. He looked like someone determined to change his string of low scores (whether or not he succeeded is another matter). He did better than Yuvraj in that aspect, and I feel until YS matures more about how to handle a failure in test innings and grind a bit more with respect to runs coming (i.e a Dravid like innings), he ought to play the FC games that are 3-day or 4-day.

I completely agree with you on most of the post. Yuvraj looked totally lost out there, like he had given up even before the battle had begun. I am at a loss for words to explain how a player like him, could struggle so much. In fact, wasnt it this very attack that he had blitzed in the 20/20 world cup just weeks earlier ! But, that is no reason to jettison him in the middle. We MUST show and continuing showing faith in Yuvraj. If he comes into his own, he will make an outstanding test no.5.

[fineleg]

I completely agree with you on most of the post. Yuvraj looked totally lost out there, like he had given up even before the battle had begun. I am at a loss for words to explain how a player like him, could struggle so much. In fact, wasnt it this very attack that he had blitzed in the 20/20 world cup just weeks earlier ! But, that is no reason to jettison him in the middle. We MUST show and continuing showing faith in Yuvraj. If he comes into his own, he will make an outstanding test no.5.

We (or selectors) dont owe anything to Yuseless. Its upto *him* to go back to domestics, try and get selected on India-A tours to play 4 day, 5 day matches etc, and prove it. He needs to do it, no need to give him any free pass. Let him earn it. (for Tests) But for Motera, since the even more useless Kaif is the replacement, Yuseless is better than useless (kaif). And on such Flat Tracks, he (yuseless) will anyway score his runs. If he cannot even do that, just jettison him once and for all in Tests after Motera.

[graphic23]

I completely agree with you on most of the post. Yuvraj looked totally lost out there, like he had given up even before the battle had begun. I am at a loss for words to explain how a player like him, could struggle so much. In fact, wasnt it this very attack that he had blitzed in the 20/20 world cup just weeks earlier ! But, that is no reason to jettison him in the middle. We MUST show and continuing showing faith in Yuvraj. If he comes into his own, he will make an outstanding test no.5.

If Yuvraj Singh clicks in Test Matches and shows consistency like he does in ODIs, it will be deadly and awesome! He makes his runs fast and dominates the opposition. The thing is though, yes more test match experience and showing more faith will build his confidence and perhaps he will try harder at getting that birth. However, how long should the rope go? Don't you think it would be healthier to getting him to play for a county and even domestic matches(where 3-day and 4-day games are played) would help him learn the mentality he ought to carry when playing a 5-day game? I hope he clicks in test cricket, it would make a deadly middle-order if Yuvraj clicks. Dhoni I think can also benefit from county experience but I think its harder for him to get a place in county cricket because he's a wicketkeeper and he might prefer playing in Indian domestic matches rather than go to England.

[fineleg]

graphic23, 1. It will be 'deadly' if VS clicks in ODIs 2. It will be 'deadly' if Yuseless clicks in Tests 3. It will be 'deadly' if SG can score quickly as ODI opener again. 4. It will be 'deadly' if Dravid can go back to the #5 quick finisher ODI role 5. It will be 'deadly' if Munaf Patel can field (ok, i take this one back :D :P will never happen) Point is they got their chances, may get a few more, capitalize on those chances, or these guys just get lost from the ODIs or Tests respectively.

[graphic23]

:D Agreed. Points 3 and 4 have occurred in the past and I think its an agility thing and the present captain's decisions to keep out those who are not very good fielders (Sachin is God, therefore he's an exception). 5 - no comments. I don't ever want to see Munaf fielding for India unless he's become rapidly better than RP, Zaheer, and Sreesanth put together. 1 and 2, surprised it hasn't happened yet. Lets hope they're given an opportunity to improve upon that, and they can utilize the opportunity to their potential and give further strength to our ODI and Test teams respectively.

[The Outsider]

I am at a loss for words to explain how a player like him, could struggle so much. In fact, wasnt it this very attack that he had blitzed in the 20/20 world cup just weeks earlier !

Let me help you - a FC average of 42 displaying an ineptness at playing long meaningful innings, looking like a batsman out of the Walsh school of batting when confronted with spin, and a propensity to dig his heels so deep in the pitch that it feels like cement when it comes to facing seaming conditions. And I just hope your comparison of 20/20 with test batting was nothing more than an ill timed joke.

[Mr. Wicket]

Let me help you - a FC average of 42 displaying an ineptness at playing long meaningful innings' date=' looking like a batsman out of the Walsh school of batting when confronted with spin[/quote'] Rubbish. You're talking complete rubbish here. Walsh blindly hoicked/swung down the ground, not over midwicket/square leg.

[fineleg]

Let me help you - a FC average of 42 displaying an ineptness at playing long meaningful innings' date= looking like a batsman out of the Walsh school of batting when confronted with spin, and a propensity to dig his heels so deep in the pitch that it feels like cement when it comes to facing seaming conditions.

Bingo!

And I just hope your comparison of 20/20 with test batting was nothing more than an ill timed joke.

Bingo!

[The Outsider]

Let me get this straight. 1) Jaffer killed all bowlers in the subcontinent & flopped in Australia, but he is still a good player

Jaffer also outperformed poster boy in WI and against England when both played together.

2) Dhoni killed all bowlers in the subcontinent & flopped in Australia, but he is still a very gritty batsman.

Dhoni keeps wickets and anyways average four times more than poster boy in Australia.

3) Kaif got some useful runs in similar conditions, but never played in Australia. (Nevermind, he was a super flop in South Africa). So he must be very good.

Kaif never got a chance to play tests in SA and had outperformed poster boy every single time they have played the same opposition in a test/series.

4) Badri, Chopra, Gambhir et al never played against international teams in recent times, but have been a major hit at home, so they must be awesome prospects.

Yeah, they are awesome prospects as poster boy is an awesome failure. Emphasis on prospect ie. we don't know enough about them but the fact that there is very little chance they'll do worse than poster boy.

5) Yuvraj has piled on runs in the subcontinent, but failed in Australia. So he is absolutely useless, right ???

No, not only did poster boy fail in Australia, he has failed everywhere outside the subcontinent. He has failed against all quality spinners he has faced and he has failed to breach the 45 run barrier in FC matches, forget about 50.

Lets agree that all the above folks are FTBs (tho, I'll exclude Chopra & Badri from the list, as they havent played much recently). They are all cr@p outside the subcontinent. So what are we gonna do ? Toss them away in conditions they are likely to succeed ? As i see it, I dont see how our team is gonna significantly improve by playing one over the other. Atleast if we ever get this dood Yuvraj to succeed at the test level, chances are that the gamble will pay a lot more dividends than playing someone else. Yuvraj will play in this series, in all likelihood & if he fails, boot him out for good.

Please don't try to club other batsmen's short comings with Yuseless. Yuseless has done worse than each and every one of the names mentioned above.

[Mr. Wicket]

prof: :hatsoff:

[Guest Yograj Singh]

Kaif should bat at 6. Yuvraj's talents will be WASTED THERE! Drop someone else and let Yuvi bat at 3 or 4, where he can do the most justice to his amazing batting skills.

[King]

Yuvraj is a way better batsman than Kaif but Kaif is a better pick at this point in time. Yuvraj may win matches with the bat but he needs to know he's not an automatic choice after his debacle in Australia. When he had opportunity he failed to justify his selection. Kaif may have done some work with his batting and may be better suited than Yuvraj for test cricket at this point in time.

[Yuvraj4Captaincy]

Yuvraj will play and shut all his critics.

[Gambit]

Yuvraj will play and shut all his critics.

Wasn't he supposed to do the same in OZ like you said before the tour? :P

[cochise]

Yuvraj will play and shut all his critics.

Agree 100%. And you know what? Next tour of New Zealand/SA/Aus...he will be in the team and he will be successful against seaming conditions too...banishing the cement feet theory for good. The previous tour of Oz where he failed...the reason was fingered by graphic23...his mind was not there. He didn't look like he was going to achieve anything...and you know what? His fielding, which used to be excellent, reflected his state of mind...even that went to pieces. You could see he was in some kind of slump due to things not being right in his head. He is a moody player...he needs to get that sorted out and then he will click. Once the hunger is back and the determination...he will shine on any track and against any attack. Go YUVI!!!!!