zen Posted August 19, 2020 Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) Based on an analysis done by cricinfo, considering the bowlers on wkts and average. I would have done it a little differently but anyways let's look at some of the periods: 1970s Lillee among the pack .... Botham = outlier! ..... Honorable mention to Roberts .... Chandra for India 1980s The trio of Marshall, Hadlee and Imran, along w/ Garner, form the key group 1990s Ambrose has the title. Donald, Wasim and Waqar are close. Pollock has a good avg too .... Warne is the top spinner 2000s Murali and McGrath .... Honorable mention to Warne .... Akhtar has a good avg 2010s Cummins has the best avg, while Anderson the most wkts, but Steyn has found the sweet spot Link Edited August 19, 2020 by zen Mosher and rkt.india 2
Gollum Posted August 19, 2020 Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) In test cricket I always give preference to SR than avg...to win a test you need 20 wickets. Other factors like 5fers, 10fers, MOM/MOS hauls, % of top/middle order wickets. Other things to consider as well, wish statisticians devise a better formula to rate bowlers. Edited August 19, 2020 by Gollum
zen Posted August 19, 2020 Author Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Gollum said: In test cricket I always give preference to SR than avg...to win a test you need 20 wickets. Other factors like 5fers, 10fers, MOM/MOS hauls, % of top/middle order wickets. Other things to consider as well, wish statisticians devise a better formula to rate bowlers. In general, avg is a key factor once you have factored in min number of wkts/games. For e.g., an avg of 20 means, theoretically, you can get a team out for 200. An avg of 30 means, you can get a team out for 300 There are relatively complex analysis done as well including based on the ratio of bowling avg to value of wkt taken From memory: * Ratio of bowling avg to value of wkt: Barnes. Among post 70s bowlers - Marshall * Most number of top order wkts (1-7): Vaas * 5-ers: Hadlee among pacers Edited August 19, 2020 by zen
Gollum Posted August 19, 2020 Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, zen said: Avg is a key factor once you have factored in min number of wkts/games. In general, an avg if 20 means, theoretically, you can get a team out for 200. An avg of 30 means, you can get a team out for 300. In test cricket time is the major factor. Runs in ODIs, you have to restrict your opponent to a lesser score than your side and you win, time not at all a factor since both sides get equal number of overs. In tests margin of victories is often quite wide, so a bowling avg of 32 compared to 30 won't make much of a difference since very few matches are decided by that close margin. But if the 32 avg team strikes every 50 balls compared to 60 in case of 30 avg team that is a difference of 17 overs per innings or more than a session per test. Could be the difference between draw and win. The problem with our 2007-10 team wasn't bowling avg, it was their inability to get 20 wickets in enough time, unlike in ODIs/T20s having low ER isn't of much use beyond a point in tests. Bedi had bowling avg of 28.7, superior to Chandra's 29.7 but what made Chandra a superior match-winner was that he took a wicket every 66 balls compared to 80+ for Bedi. Likewise more than Kapil's avg his SR was a concern, 64 which is acceptable for spinners but not quicks. I am not saying SR is the only measure, just that I give more importance to it than avg in test format. 1 minute ago, zen said: There are relatively complex analysis done as well including based on the ratio of bowling avg to value of wkt taken From memory: * Ratio of bowling avg to value of wkt: Barnes * Most number of top order wkts (1-7): Vaas * 5-ers: Hadlee among pacers Ok thanks, will check them out. Mosher 1
zen Posted August 19, 2020 Author Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Gollum said: In test cricket time is the major factor. Runs in ODIs, you have to restrict your opponent to a lesser score than your side and you win, time not at all a factor since both sides get equal number of overs. In tests margin of victories is often quite wide, so a bowling avg of 32 compared to 30 won't make much of a difference since very few matches are decided by that close margin. But if the 32 avg team strikes every 50 balls compared to 60 in case of 30 avg team that is a difference of 17 overs per innings or more than a session per test. Could be the difference between draw and win. The problem with our 2007-10 team wasn't bowling avg, it was their inability to get 20 wickets in enough time, unlike in ODIs/T20s having low ER isn't of much use beyond a point in tests. Bedi had bowling avg of 28.7, superior to Chandra's 29.7 but what made Chandra a superior match-winner was that he took a wicket every 66 balls compared to 80+ for Bedi. Likewise more than Kapil's avg his SR was a concern, 64 which is acceptable for spinners but not quicks. I am not saying SR is the only measure, just that I give more importance to it than avg in test format. Those are close averages though where then you can consider other factors including overseas performances where someone like Chandra as a spinner shines too In tests, much like a batsman avg 35 will not be better than someone avg 45 in general (there can be special cases), similarly for bowling avg of 20 and 30
Gollum Posted August 19, 2020 Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, zen said: Those are close averages though where then you can consider other factors including overseas performances where someone like Chandra as a spinner shines too In tests, much like a batsman avg 35 will not be better than someone avg 45 in general (there can be special cases), similarly for bowling avg of 20 and 30 Yeah sure, I am not going to compare a 20 avg bowler with a 30 avg one, a clear gulf in class. But if the difference is less (say <=3) I would like to have a closer look at their SR. But we also need to look at many other factors/numbers to get a more comprehensive picture.
zen Posted August 19, 2020 Author Posted August 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, Gollum said: Yeah sure, I am not going to compare a 20 avg bowler with a 30 avg one, a clear gulf in class. But if the difference is less (say <=3) I would like to have a closer look at their SR. But we also need to look at many other factors/numbers to get a more comprehensive picture. Yeah, it depends .... For e.g. If you look at Pakistani pace bowlers with 100 or more test wkts, top two averaging bowlers are Imran & Wasim, while bowlers with top strike rates bowlers are Waqar and Akthar. Asif sits in between these two sets.
zen Posted August 19, 2020 Author Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) I did a Avg-SR graph for selected top bowlers w/ 200 or more test wkts excl BD and Zim Marshall Edited August 19, 2020 by zen
zen Posted August 20, 2020 Author Posted August 20, 2020 4 hours ago, cricketfan28 said: Herath!! Are you a fan of left arm slow bowlers (your DP has one too, one of my favorite players)
cricketfan28 Posted August 20, 2020 Posted August 20, 2020 9 hours ago, zen said: Are you a fan of left arm slow bowlers (your DP has one too, one of my favorite players) yes.
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