Wasim Rizvi criticised Quran, and then got beaten up in India. None supported him in India, including BJP. Indian Secularism incomplete

[coffee_rules]

5 minutes ago, Khota said:

Western societies are still more aware and tolerant that majority of the world. We may not agree with everything they do but they still follow law more closely than others. 

That is not the discussion about. That is level of education and urban decorum, not in discussion here

[Alam_dar]

8 hours ago, Mariyam said:

There are tons of books/movies that have been banned in India that have offended people of faiths other than Islam. A simple google search will make that amply clear to you. You are just citing examples of books banned due to pressure by the Islamists to show some kind of a double standard in the law where none exists.

 

Off course Islam/Muslims are not alone, but this law will automatically apply on all. 

 

For example, Europe first gave this right against the Church and Christianity, but then it was also applied upon Judaism, and later upon Islam and ideology of Atheism too. 

 

A lot of books have been written against agnosticism/atheism, and nothing wrong with it and all of them are welcome. 

 

8 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Even so, Muslims have the right to believe in the finality of their revelation. They, or anyone else for that matter, have the right to hold on to a belief system no matter how discriminatory it may be.

 

Off course Muslims have all the right to believe whatever they want. 

 

I think that the question here is not about Muslims, but it is the question about the Non-Muslims and what they think about Islam. Do Non-Muslims have the right to have their own opinion about Islam and to publish it in books form, and to propagate and preach it? 

 

8 hours ago, Mariyam said:

If the SC of India were to review every religious scripture, I'm afraid there would hardly be any reading on religion that would not be prohibited. 

 

Exactly. 

And this is exactly what Europe did. 

Courts have nothing to do with religious books or anti-religious books (till the time the question of Hate Speech arises). 

While in India religious books are free of scrutiny from courts, but only non-religious books have to undergo this procedure, which is against the concept of Equality. 

 

 

And I think I am finished with all my arguments regarding this subject. 
I am thankful to @Mariyam for this nice debate. I learnt a lot from it. Thank you. 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Alam_dar

[Alam_dar]

8 hours ago, Vilander said:

Honestly I don't want to defend Islam here hehe.. but there is a period context here. What do you think other non religious groups of people who were fighting other groups were doing at that time? It was unfortunately how humans were at the time. But I get the need for reform every religion should self reform. 

 

The reason is this that Prophet Muhammad has still many times more IMPACT on our life today, than any other warrior of the past. 

 

Whole non-Muslim communities are suffering badly in Islamic countries. We have severe problems of religious terrorism and religious wars today. 

 

My friend and teacher has already been sentenced for death in name of blasphemy.

 

And after so much sacrifice, still there is no sign of reforms on mass level, but opposite is true, and Muslim communities (especially where they are in majority) are becoming more radical with each passing day. 

[Alam_dar]

3 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Western law might be guaranteeing equal rights. Western society has regressed as much as Indian society in protecting the human rights of those criticizing Islam. Any comment of Islamic practices are termed as Islamophobia and the cancel culture of the left leaves those people ostracized from the community. Some countries have made Islamophobia illegal and punished like Kaneda. Denial of Holocaust is acceptable FoE

 

You are right. 

Hopefully Westerners also learn it with time and evolve the same way like Indian society evolved and learnt it with time. 

[Mariyam]

6 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

I think that the question here is not about Muslims, but it is the question about the Non-Muslims and what they think about Islam. Do Non-Muslims have the right to have their own opinion about Islam and to publish it in books form, and to propagate and preach it? 

 

Of course.

 

 Let me help you here:

Dr Ambedkar on Nationalism and Islam is very criticial of Islam as a political force and is a reference book in many universities. 

Negationism and Islam is another such book. Faced a fair bit of flak from Muslim organisations and is still available.

These are the ones I can think of now. 

Both these books can be purchased on Amazon/Flipkart etc. They are in college libraries.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Mariyam

[Alam_dar]

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Of course.

 

 Let me help you here:

Dr Ambedkar on Nationalism and Islam is very criticial of Islam as a political force and is a reference book in many universities. 

Negationism and Islam is another such book. Faced a fair bit of flak from Muslim organisations and is still available.

These are the ones I can think of now. 

Both these books can be purchased on Amazon/Flipkart etc. They are in college libraries.

 

 

 

It seems that both of these books deal with Political Islam only. 

 

While the ones, who deal with Religious Islam (i.e. criticizing Quran and prophet Muhammad directly), they are banned. 

[Mariyam]

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

It seems that both of these books deal with Political Islam only. 

 

While the ones, who deal with Religious Islam (i.e. criticizing Quran and prophet Muhammad directly), they are banned. 

Maybe, but the Islamists don't draw a distinction between Political Islam and canonical Islam. You know that better than most.

There was opposition at some level to both these books.

 

PS: I haven't read Dr Ambedkar's book, but from the comments section I gather that it does have not so nice things to say about the hadith and Islamic jurisprudence in general.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Mariyam