IPL ... Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners ....

[Jay]

10 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Again you are falling back on average bcoz you have nothing substantial to debate. Shoaib was not good enough both fitness or skill wise to play more than 46 tests. Its not very difficult to maintain a healthy avg if your sample size is small. Ishant has played 104 tests and still going strong. There is absolutely no doubt Ishant is a much more accomplished test match bowler than Akhtar.

tattuu doesnt ralize phalinder averages 22. now ask him if philander is greater than wasim ? stats isnt everything. 

pakthar is a good bowler but he dint deliver vs top sides. 

[Austin 3:!6]

Never understood this fascination with average from our padosis. So play handful of games in the peak years, build a good average, dont have the stomach to fight out the off peak period and then claim he is an ATG bowler due to xyz average. Wah kya logic hai. So if Bumrah retires today he is better than Imran, Wasim, Waqar everyone? Aise nehi hota hai.

 

I would anyday pick a workhorse who plays 100 test matches with 32 avg/ 250+ test wickets over a bowler who played only handful of games with 24 avg who dont even have 200 test wickets.

 

Then again Pak fans can think whatever they want. They also believe Razzaq was better than Kapil Dev or Ahmed Sehzad had more talent than Tendulkar. These guys lives in parallel world. 

[Mesky99]

12 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Again you are falling back on average bcoz you have nothing substantial to debate. Shoaib was not good enough both fitness or skill wise to play more than 46 tests. Its not very difficult to maintain a healthy avg if your sample size is small. Ishant has played 104 tests and still going strong. There is absolutely no doubt Ishant is a much more accomplished test match bowler than Akhtar.

What was ishants average after 46 test? I believe it was close to 40

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

India has never been a fast bowling country is not a factually correct statement. Yes most of our bowlers dont strive for pace madness like our padosis do but that does not mean we dont produce fast bowlers. Bumrah himself has better record in SENA countries than any bowler in Pak history.

 

Also, what has pace given to Pakistan anyway? Not a single bowler to take 200 test wickets since Waqar Younis who himself relied heavily on tampered balls. I would anyday take a bowler like Zaheer Khan than someone who is just striving for pace like Sami.

 

Pakistan took their tear away young fast bowler Naseem Shah on Australia tour saying they will see fear in the eyes. What happen? Warner was laughing and scoring triple for fun. Ricky Ponting even said 'Not sure I have seen worst bowling attack in our shores' Even T.Natarajan with his military medium outbowled Shah when India toured there next.

 

Our posters need to stop being fascinated with Pakistan and their mythical fast bowlers. Infact their 2 best bowlers are Shaheen and Abbas who are medium pace at best.

Shaheen is medium pace?

[Austin 3:!6]

5 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

What was ishants average after 46 test? I believe it was close to 40

Who knows what Akhtar would have avg had he played 104 tests like Sharma. He was simply not good enough for more than 46 tests.

[Mesky99]

12 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Never understood this fascination with average from our padosis. So play handful of games in the peak years, build a good average, dont have the stomach to fight out the off peak period and then claim he is an ATG bowler due to xyz average. Wah kya logic hai. So if Bumrah retires today he is better than Imran, Wasim, Waqar everyone? Aise nehi hota hai.

 

I would anyday pick a workhorse who plays 100 test matches with 32 avg/ 250+ test wickets over a bowler who played only handful of games with 24 avg who dont even have 200 test wickets.

 

Then again Pak fans can think whatever they want. They also believe Razzaq was better than Kapil Dev or Ahmed Sehzad had more talent than Tendulkar. These guys lives in parallel world. 

It's has about impact you fool, try assemble a bowling lineup up with three work horses, the team would go nowhere, Ishant has improved and is a decent bowler, nothing more.

[Jay]

8 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

What was ishants average after 46 test? I believe it was close to 40

agree with impact. shoaib was better than ishant easily. 

 

 

[Jay]

5 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Who knows what Akhtar would have avg had he played 104 tests like Sharma. He was simply not good enough for more than 46 tests.

i see what you mean. in that case lets compare how many games shaoib has won for paxtan vs ishant for india? who had more impact. lets be honest here, shoaib would be a lot higher. Although ishant post 2016 was an animal and played a huge role in 2018 vs aussies etc. Dont think ishant could ever lead a team though like shoaib. He cant carry an attack. 

[Austin 3:!6]

1 minute ago, Mesky99 said:

It's has about impact you fool, try assemble a bowling lineup up with three work horses, the team would go nowhere, Ishant has improved and is a decent bowler, nothing more.

You dumb ass....maintaining impact for fewer matches is easier than sustaining it for longer periods. If Akhtar was such an impact bowler, why didnt he play more than 46 tests? Lol.

 

So if avg is everything, Vernon Philander is greater than all Pak bowlers in history as per your own logic?

 

You are clearly hurt since I shown you the mirror. You were going on and on about how great Pak bowlers were but when you couldnt list more than 3 bowlers > 250 wickets, you even tried to bring SA 

[Mesky99]

12 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Again you are falling back on average bcoz you have nothing substantial to debate. Shoaib was not good enough both fitness or skill wise to play more than 46 tests. Its not very difficult to maintain a healthy avg if your sample size is small. Ishant has played 104 tests and still going strong. There is absolutely no doubt Ishant is a much more accomplished test match bowler than Akhtar.

Shoaib was not good enough skill wise? U music be kidding yourself, he was the standout pacer even in the 2007 test series in India, his skill set was underated, he had conventional swing with the new ball, steep bounce, got it to reverse with the old bowl, set up many a great batsman in his career, another aspect which he was good at was using the crease. He was a smart operator.

[Austin 3:!6]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

i see what you mean. in that case lets compare how many games shaoib has won for paxtan vs ishant for india? who had more impact. lets be honest here, shoaib would be a lot higher. Although ishant post 2016 was an animal and played a huge role in 2018 vs aussies etc. Dont think ishant could ever lead a team though like shoaib. He cant carry an attack. 

Its not only Sohaib vs Ishant comparison but my post was more generic. Pak fans has this mindset that their bowlers are superior just bcoz they have good average but dont factor things like total matches/wickets etc as that will shred the arguement into pieces. 

[Jay]

4 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

You dumb ass....maintaining impact for fewer matches is easier than sustaining it for longer periods. If Akhtar was such an impact bowler, why didnt he play more than 46 tests? Lol.

 

So if avg is everything, Vernon Philander is greater than all Pak bowlers in history as per your own logic?

 

You are clearly hurt since I shown you the mirror. You were going on and on about how great Pak bowlers were but when you couldnt list more than 3 bowlers > 250 wickets, you even tried to bring SA 

i can understand from his point of view. we need a number tbh. whats the cutoff to compare players? 50 tests? 

honestly if you look at impact, no one comes close to bumrah. bumrah is easily the best of all time based on impact from asia. But greatest bowler from asia title requires more game time. So it will have to be wasim. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Jay

[Austin 3:!6]

Just now, Mesky99 said:

Shoaib was not good enough skill wise? U music be kidding yourself, he was the standout pacer even in the 2007 test series in India, his skill set was underated, he had conventional swing with the new ball, steep bounce, got it to reverse with the old bowl, set up many a great batsman in his career, another aspect which he was good at was using the crease. He was a smart operator.

You are singling out spells but I am talking about overall career. Ishant's spell against Ponting downunder, have you seen it?

 

Point is and I am repeating for 5th time (LOL), Akhtar was not good enough physically or skill wise to play more than 46 test matches. Ishant Sharma had played 104 matches, got more wickets than Akhtar and still going strong. There is absolutely no doubt that Ishant will go down as a superior test bowler.

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Its not only Sohaib vs Ishant comparison but my post was more generic. Pak fans has this mindset that their bowlers are superior just bcoz they have good average but dont factor things like total matches/wickets etc as that will shred the arguement into pieces. 

ah yea. fair enough. Yeah they are obsessed with stats. they forget about impact, ability, wickets etc. 

 

if you observe closely wasim's stats in sena was 28.5

 

waqar was 37

 

shoaib was 30 plus too,

 

so are they really that much better lol?

[Mesky99]

12 hours ago, Jay said:

i see what you mean. in that case lets compare how many games shaoib has won for paxtan vs ishant for india? who had more impact. lets be honest here, shoaib would be a lot higher. Although ishant post 2016 was an animal and played a huge role in 2018 vs aussies etc. Dont think ishant could ever lead a team though like shoaib. He cant carry an attack. 

Ishant was way to lack luster after 2008 onwards, pathetic team management did not help either, he lost all his sting in his bowling and ended up being wasted in useless odi tours, he got some of his rhythm back in 2011, bowled with decent speeds in wi, eng and aus but a tad to short, srinath had a similar issue to with his lengths anyway having dhoni as the captain also did not help for the likes of ishant, Umesh, Aaron. 

 

[Austin 3:!6]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

i can understand from his point of view. we need a number tbh. whats the cutoff to compare players? 50 tests? 

honestly if you look at impact, no one comes close to bumrah. bumrah is easily the best of all time based on impact from asia. But greatest bowler from asia title requires more game time. So it will have to be wasim. 

Okay so Bumrah cant be best seamer from Asia bcoz he needs more games. But for Akhtar 46 test matches is enough?

 

The vibe I am getting is, Indian bowlers need to play an elongated period but Pak seamers can claim they are best or impactful even with short careers...lol.

 

You cant have the cake and cherry too. If avg equals impact and determine who is the better bowler, then both Philander and Bumrah is better than all Pakistani bowlers till date. But we know that is not the case as cricket is more than stats.

[Jay]

1 minute ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

You are singling out spells but I am talking about overall career. Ishant's spell against Ponting downunder, have you seen it?

 

Point is and I am repeating for 5th time (LOL), Akhtar was not good enough physically or skill wise to play more than 46 test matches. Ishant Sharma had played 104 matches, got more wickets than Akhtar and still going strong. There is absolutely no doubt that Ishant will go down as a superior test bowler.

when you say superior, do you mean greater or better. greater will be ishant. better has to be shoaib. 

btw SENA averages for akthar is 35.6

ishant is 37. 

 

hahhaa wtf? 

[Austin 3:!6]

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

ah yea. fair enough. Yeah they are obsessed with stats. they forget about impact, ability, wickets etc. 

 

if you observe closely wasim's stats in sena was 28.5

 

waqar was 37

 

shoaib was 30 plus too,

 

so are they really that much better lol?

Thats the propaganda bit they like to spread a lot. But when actual tour happens, you hear comments like 'Not sure I have seen worst bowling attack in our shores' 

 

During my younger days when I was extremely vella, I had debated all these in lengths with Pak posters in PP. It was always fun to rub into their delusions. But as I grew old, I realized I have better things to worry...lol.

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Okay so Bumrah cant be best seamer from Asia bcoz he needs more games. But for Akhtar 46 test matches is enough?

 

The vibe I am getting is, Indian bowlers need to play an elongated period but Pak seamers can claim they are best or impactful even with short careers...lol.

 

You cant have the cake and cherry too. If avg equals impact and determine who is the better bowler, then both Philander and Bumrah is better than all Pakistani bowlers till date. But we know that is not the case as cricket is more than stats.

yea fair enough. i get what you mean. its hard to really compare. for me personally i prefer best of all time rather than greatest. But to be a true great you need to have played atleasy 50 games though tbf. Maybe some concessions for modern players as they have to play 3 formats plus IPL. 

 

 

[Mesky99]

12 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

You are singling out spells but I am talking about overall career. Ishant's spell against Ponting downunder, have you seen it?

 

Point is and I am repeating for 5th time (LOL), Akhtar was not good enough physically or skill wise to play more than 46 test matches. Ishant Sharma had played 104 matches, got more wickets than Akhtar and still going strong. There is absolutely no doubt that Ishant will go down as a superior test bowler.

Ishant's spell against punter was great but his numbers in the series was average at best, rp and Irfan had more impact in the Perth test. No ishant is nowhere close to akthar in terms of ability or numbers. Akthar did not have much support once Wasim/waqar retired, he lead the attack and was very impactful, he was a quality performer even when half fit, there are no brownie points for playing hundred feet matches, in those 100 test matches ishant sucked in atleast 35% of the games, ishant on his good day will have figures of 5-89, akthar could have 6-30