Will Hinduism become extinct?

[AKane]

12 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

So in other words, you think those who've been ahead for 300 years via genocide, mass murder and waging war in name of god is a better choice than those who've been ahead for the prior 3000 years who dont do such **** things. got it. 

 

Correct. Last 300 years or 500 years is verifiable history. Anything before that are fables and exaggerations.

 

One might argue that the Mahabharat war that decimated life in India - esp Kshatriyas - was genocide, mass murder and waging war in the name of god or .... <drumroll> dharma!  If no problem with that then why the concern for the same in last 300 years?

[coffee_rules]

33 minutes ago, AKane said:

Weep some more. I just look at results over history and make up my own sweet mind. Oh yes....I care more about poor little kids selling trinkets on the road in India at 10 pm instead of Yudhisthir and Arjun and Bhagavad Gitas recited to them by the powers that be.

Such a reductionist you are. So in your simpleton mind,  if you listen to what Krishna told to Arjuna in Bhagavadgita, you don’t care for the poor kids selling trunklets on the ground? Why should it be a binary? I can and do both.  Read Bhagavadgita and care for the poor. Leftists and Monotheists believe in trhat kind binary - either you are with us or against us. 

Edited September 28, 2024 by coffee_rules

[singhvivek141]

13 minutes ago, AKane said:

Correct. Last 300 years or 500 years is verifiable history. Anything before that are fables and exaggerations.

 

One might argue that the Mahabharat war that decimated life in India - esp Kshatriyas - was genocide, mass murder and waging war in the name of god or .... <drumroll> dharma!  If no problem with that then why the concern for the same in last 300 years?

No they aren't.
Roman Empire wasn't a fable and it existed till 1453 AD till fall of Constantinople. 
Viking Era wasn't a fable and they carried thousand of attacks on England before converting.
Similarly Mauryan Empire or Kushan Empire weren't a fable. Kanishka the great has an empire right from Caspian Sea till modern day UP.

Indus Valley Civilization is a living proof that Indian subcontinent were technologically much more advanced than the world. But nothing lasts forever, cycle repeats itself.

[AKane]

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Such a reductionist you are. So in your simpleton mind,  if you listen to what Krishna told to Arjuna in Bhagavadgita, you don’t care for the poor kids selling trunklets on the ground? Why should it be a binary? I can and do both.  Read Bhagavadgita and care for the poor. Leftists and Monotheists believe in trhat kind binary - either you are with us or against us. 

But it does not seem to matter one bit does it? Believing or non believing the Bhagavad Gita is irrelevant to the welfare of the poor or what happened to the country. That is my point. And so I could care less.....

[coffee_rules]

6 minutes ago, AKane said:

But it does not seem to matter one bit does it? Believing or non believing the Bhagavad Gita is irrelevant to the welfare of the poor or what happened to the country. That is my point. And so I could care less.....

So there are no poor people outside of India/Hindustan?  

[AKane]

23 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

No they aren't.
Roman Empire wasn't a fable and it existed till 1453 AD till fall of Constantinople. 

There were many many sacks of Rome before that. Eastern empire yes lasted till what you said. 

 

The borders and wars like Carthage etc are documented but tales of glory are exaggerations. Who knows what Vikramaditya and his kingdom really looked like....

 

There were a lot of diseases and misery and the black plagues etc in the past and stories of gloried past are definitely exaggerations.

 

People did not even know boiling water prevented dysentery. So they drank beer instead of water in Europe. But to make beer you had to boil barley etc. That prevented the dysentery not the fermentation to beer. So it was not the portrayed glory. Same in India.

 

Past 300 years have been much better than overrated past. Imagine we were using horse and buggies through the ages until 1900 (including Krishna and Arjuna btw). Now we fly across the oceans in jets and split the atom in just the last 100 years - just 100. Past  is overrated.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2024 by AKane

[zen]

32 minutes ago, AKane said:

One might argue that the Mahabharat war that decimated life in India - esp Kshatriyas - was genocide, mass murder and waging war in the name of god or .... <drumroll> dharma! 

IIRC, Mahabharata was mainly fought b/w Kauravas and Pandavas  for the “empire” (and revenge where applicable).

Much like countries sided with either the US or USSR, many kingdoms took sides.

 

Even Lord Krishna was not spared. Both Kauravas and Pandavas went to him for assistance. Krishna offered two choices - one can have his army or him. Kauravas chose his army, while Pandavas got Krishna.

 

Before the battle, Krishna reveals the truth, which is called Bhagwat Gita.

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, zen said:

IIRC, Mahabharata was mainly fought b/w Kauravas and Pandavas  for the “empire” (and revenge where applicable).

Much like countries sided with either the US or USSR, many kingdoms took sides.

 

Even Lord Krishna was not spared. Both Kauravas and Pandavas went to him for assistance. Krishna offered two choices - one can have his army or him. Kauravas chose his army, while Pandavas got Krishna.

 

Before the battle, Krishna reveals the truth, which is called Bhagwat Gita.

Zen uncle at his finest

[AKane]

5 minutes ago, zen said:

Before the battle, Krishna reveals the truth, which is called Bhagwat Gita.

and what is that truth? Something that ends in the nothingburger of Moksha? What is Moksha exactly? Why would one want Moksha?

[coffee_rules]

11 minutes ago, AKane said:

There were many many sacks of Rome before that. Eastern empire yes lasted till what you said. 

 

The borders and wars like Carthage etc are documented but tales of glory are exaggerations. Who knows what Vikramaditya and his kingdom really looked like....

 

There were a lot of diseases and misery and the black plagues etc in the past and stories of gloried past are definitely exaggerations.

 

People did not even know boiling water prevented dysentery. So they drank beer instead of water in Europe. But to make beer you had to boil barley etc. That prevented the dysentery not the fermentation to beer. So it was not the portrayed glory. Same in India.

 

Past 300 years have been much better than overrated past. Imagine we were using horse and buggies through the ages until 1900 (including Krishna and Arjuna btw). Now we fly across the oceans in jets and split the atom in just the last 100 years - just 100. Past  is overrated.

 

 

And you think we made advances in the past 300 years with no contribution of the past? Look at IVC excavations of 5000 years ago to learn about how we are advanced because of their knowledge. Man was not born 300 years ago. To split the atom, physicists struggled for 1000s of years of research of gaining knowledge. It didn’t drop from the sky if that is what you think.

[coffee_rules]

9 minutes ago, AKane said:

and what is that truth? Something that ends in the nothingburger of Moksha? What is Moksha exactly? Why would one want Moksha?

You don’t get Moksha, your atma gets. You do good karma so your atma attains sadgati. You are a facking nobody 

[zen]

3 minutes ago, AKane said:

and what is that truth? Something that ends in the nothingburger of Moksha? What is Moksha exactly? Why would one want Moksha?

To learn the truth one has to undertake his/her own journey. 
 

There is a story where a woman, along with her son, went to a saint to request him to tell her son to stop eating too much sweet. The saint asked the woman to come after a week. 
 

After a week, the saint told her son to stop eating too much sweet. The woman got confused as she felt that such an advice could have been given to her son when they visited the saint the last time.

 

She asked the saint about that. The saint explained that to advise her son, he himself needed to first stop eating sweets. He abstained from sweets for a week and then gave her son the advice. 
 

I have Bhagwat Gita as an audiobook. I have the book as well. My mom has a very old book which was passed on to her by her dad. But I don’t fully remember or understand the Gita yet. 

Coming yo Moksha, it is simply freeing one from the cycle of birth and death, which can be achieved through good karma. 

https://www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org/chapter/1/verse/1

[AKane]

Just now, coffee_rules said:

To split the atom, physicists struggled for 1000s of years of research of gaining knowledge. It didn’t drop from the sky if that is what you think.

Physiscists  did not even attempt splitting the atom until Otto Hahn and his work in 1930s.

 

There have been remarkable advances in the last 100 .... even a Pandava fan like you has to admit that.

 

Yes there have been contributions from the past but miniscule and slow over as you say 1000s of years. Something happened in the last 100 to have accelarated society.  From horse and buggy to  cars to prop planes to jets to rockets to satellites in just 100 - 150 years. Amazing. Amazing too is the stagnation for 1000s of years before.

[AKane]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

Coming yo Moksha, it is simply freeing one from the cycle of birth and death, which can be achieved through good karma. 

What happens after you are freed from cycle of birth and death? What state are you or your soul after that and why is that something to strive for?

[AKane]

4 minutes ago, AKane said:

What happens after you are freed from cycle of birth and death? What state are you or your soul after that and why is that something to strive for?

See Christianity gives the simplistic and unbelievable explanation of everlasting life without sorrow after the resurrection to come. I don't believe it  but can understand it at least.

 

I do not understand the benefit of Moksha at all or what comes after that. Do you become a gandharva or deva or something?

 

Edited September 28, 2024 by AKane

[zen]

1 minute ago, AKane said:

What happens after you are freed from cycle of birth and death? What state are you or your soul after that and why is that something to strive for?

Because the cycle of birth and death is suffering. Moksha is freedom from this suffering. 
 

Based on good deeds, one can get a relatively better life in his/her next birth (so don’t envy Ambani for e.g.) and vice versa.

 

Below is a chapter on Karma:

 

https://www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org/chapter/5
 

 

Like you, Arjun in it, is asking questions!

 

 

[AKane]

11 minutes ago, zen said:

To learn the truth one has to undertake his/her own journey. 
 

There is a story where a woman, along with her son, went to a saint to request him to tell her son to stop eating too much sweet. The saint asked the woman to come after a week. 
 

After a week, the saint told her son to stop eating too much sweet. The woman got confused as she felt that such an advice could have been given to her son when they visited the saint the last time.

 

She asked the saint about that. The saint explained that to advise her son, he himself needed to first stop eating sweets. He abstained from sweets for a week and then gave her son the advice. 

yeah..... but that relates to eating sweets or eating pizza or meat which is okay.

 

But if I asked a saint how to get truth or Moksha that would mean he has to achieve Moksha before he can tell me - kind of a longer process than a week. I guess that is what Buddhists say in that Siddhartha achieved Gautam status and became a Buddha to advice others so you may have a point.

[AKane]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

ecause the cycle of birth and death is suffering. Moksha is freedom from this suffering. 

Freedom from this suffering to what? What happens after the suffering ends? You will find there is no answer.

[zen]

5 minutes ago, AKane said:

Freedom from this suffering to what? What happens after the suffering ends? You will find there is no answer.

To go to the supreme state and with the God. 
 

At the end of the day, religion is a private matter. One has to seek his own answer.
 

God works in mysterious ways. The way he engages with individuals is also different and is based on devotions and interactions with him through various life cycles.
 

Religion is based on faith. Most people believe in God without seeing him. Now if the question is “Where is God? Show me the God and then I will follow” is missing the point of a religion. 
 

 

[zen]

Talking about suffering - Gods when they have taken human form have had to suffer too and respect the boundaries of their human avatar. Read about:

 

Lord Rama - had to take vanvas and also stay away from his family.

 

Lord Krishna - at birth, had to be saved from his uncle. Was raised by foster parents as his own parents were captive. Then moved to Dwarka. 
 

Lord Ramdev Pir - took a samadhi.

 

Sai Baba - said to have taken the illness of one of his favourite devotee so that the devotee could live longer.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2024 by zen