Indian Defense Updates

[G_B_]

5 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Even the tanks supplied by Chinks are horribly constructed and lack the capability to sustain a contested warzone.

 

But the thing is, they can manufacture it at cheap cost, learn from the battles of their sellers and can improve it further.

 

 

 

Lets see the india china border is hostile territory.

 

I think they use terrible parts for exports. If the local made one fails the generals will have their balls.

[ravishingravi]

Very interesting scenarios developing. I hope there will be surprise attack in Q1'26. 

[G_B_]

11 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Yeah, thats the key reason.

And somewhere down the line, MoD knows that even India cant help them, our production lines are abysmally slower..

 

Russia is trying to convince us with all these lucrative deals. Let's see, who blinks the eye first 

 

The hal production line in nashik can deliver 12 to 15 mki per year. This is a proven line which parikar optimised. We ordered 12 mki last year and mostly those are close to being delivered. This line can and should  be expanded to deliver 24 to 30 per year. There is a chain of local suppliers. The local content % keeps rapidly rising. The issue is the su57e design in itself is not finalised. The engine is not finalised. So as i keep saying, expand the mki line to 30 per year to replace older frames and add super sukhoi upgrades. Automatically Sukhoi corp gets money to invest in su57 program and it does not trigger Trump as a rejection of f35. Start local su57 production in 2030 with a 18 super sukhoi to 12 su57 ratio. Ideally goal must be capacity to produce 30 sukhoi jets fully armed.

 

 

On paper the hal tejas line can deliver 12 to 16 tejas a year. I stress the words on paper. There are plans for 20 a year. But i think its best to count any tejas as a bonus. The 1a and mk2 programs are a back hole at this moment.

[G_B_]

And generally i am not a fan of rafale. But i think looking at tejas program, just order 72 more rafale (f4 and f5) from the french. They have the capacity to deliver by early 30s. Maybe can do a deal for used rafale to add more.

 

Apart from expanding mki production to 30 with super sukhoi upgrades its the only other play india have in the next year.

 

A call needs to be made on the third/fourth aircraft carrier. The flop tejas program means india should be looking at long range drones or something.

 

 

 

[G_B_]

Forgot to add, India also needs to examine the MiG-29 in greater detail. We suffered radar issues with it. (including the mig29k).

 

But the bird has held up well in the skirmish with China and also done well as a defensive interceptor for Ukraine with western bombs. I think you can get an excellent product with the Uttam radar and astra mk2. I think we are already doing this. Depending on the success of this program, India should 100% try to import 100+ frames just like they imported more Jaguars for scraps from a Middle Eastern country place them at forward airbases (which we are already doing). I think any loss of Mig29 is going to be very palatable. As long as the pilots can eject in Indian territory. 

 

This is where we are missing the likes of Parikar. Rajanth Singh, i feel, is there to ensure no major corruption. Major calls are made out of PMO. But Parikar the technocrat, got the MKI program working as it should have done on paper. Given the skirmishes with China and Pak this gov should retire Rajnath and give defence to a technocrat.

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

We ordered 12 mki last year and mostly those are close to being delivered

2027 was the timeframe given when first of the 12 mki will arrive.  It takes time to streamline the supply chain.  Reckon late 2027 is when at the earliest we will get all of them if everything works out.

That's why it was never wise to stop the production line in the first place.  

MoD need to sort it's **** and place a larger order.

HAL had promised it can deliver 4 MKI squadrons upto 2029.  It was a 5 billion worth contract.. I reckon.

[Lone Wolf]

Serious allegations from So Korea...  Local Korean outlets reporting this.

 

Won't mind even if true.  Chinese have done this for years, why not us 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

And generally i am not a fan of rafale. But i think looking at tejas program, just order 72 more rafale (f4 and f5) from the french. They have the capacity to deliver by early 30s. Maybe can do a deal for used rafale to add more

Even if they push it to 2032-33 then go for it still.  Especially F5

 

It's the only foreign aircraft which we may get in the timeframe.

[G_B_]

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

2027 was the timeframe given when first of the 12 mki will arrive.  It takes time to streamline the supply chain.  Reckon late 2027 is when at the earliest we will get all of them if everything works out.

That's why it was never wise to stop the production line in the first place.  

MoD need to sort it's **** and place a larger order.

HAL had promised it can deliver 4 MKI squadrons upto 2029.  It was a 5 billion worth contract.. I reckon.

 

 

There was chatter from a Russian technical professor who works at Sukhoi that India had effectively ordered 300 MKI. Including losses, this would incidate those have been inducted. Beofre the order 260 odd were with the IAF.

 

https://www1.ru/en/news/2025/12/26/rossiia-zarabotala-15-mlrd-dollarov-na-postavkax-su-30mki-v-indiiu.html

 

"According to him, there are about 300 of these fighters in the Indian army, the average price of one is in the region of $35 million"

 

If you look at the HAL 2024-2025 financial report the AL30-FP engine deliveries were given to IAF ahead of time, with significant local content. This would indicate the deliveries for the Su30mki are done or close to done. We need to wait for the next years report (though they wont spell out the numbers).

 

Vietnam ordered the Su35 indirectly 

https://united24media.com/latest-news/vietnam-buys-40-russian-su-35-fighters-in-covert-8-billion-weapons-pact-with-oil-payments-to-dodge-sanctions-12854

 

So a lot of deals with russia are simply not making the headlines.

 

[G_B_]

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Serious allegations from So Korea...  Local Korean outlets reporting this.

 

Won't mind even if true.  Chinese have done this for years, why not us 

 

 

 

 

I feel best way forward for India is to (a) continue with three Scorpere 2000 (these have AIP) and use DRDO with retrofit remaining ones (b) order 6 Dosan Ahn Changho-class subs to be build 3 in India and 3 in South Korea. Costly yes. But given they have options of firing bailsitic missiles, handy. Deliveries will start early 2030. India has had good expiriences with Hanwha on stuff like K9.

 

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/09/new-dawn-first-time-a-modern-non-nuclear-submarine-has-fired-a-ballistic-missile/

[singhvivek141]

13 hours ago, G_B_ said:

 

The hal production line in nashik can deliver 12 to 15 mki per year. This is a proven line which parikar optimised. We ordered 12 mki last year and mostly those are close to being delivered. This line can and should  be expanded to deliver 24 to 30 per year. There is a chain of local suppliers. The local content % keeps rapidly rising. The issue is the su57e design in itself is not finalised. The engine is not finalised. So as i keep saying, expand the mki line to 30 per year to replace older frames and add super sukhoi upgrades. Automatically Sukhoi corp gets money to invest in su57 program and it does not trigger Trump as a rejection of f35. Start local su57 production in 2030 with a 18 super sukhoi to 12 su57 ratio. Ideally goal must be capacity to produce 30 sukhoi jets fully armed.

 

 

On paper the hal tejas line can deliver 12 to 16 tejas a year. I stress the words on paper. There are plans for 20 a year. But i think its best to count any tejas as a bonus. The 1a and mk2 programs are a back hole at this moment.

 

And thats what worries me.

 

While Su30MKI is a formidable fighter jet, under the current EW, its prone to jamming courtesy of its older avionics. Unless we speed up Super Sukhoi project where the airframe will be wide open to deploy new avionics entirely.

 

Rafale and potentially Tejas mk1a and mk2 are supposed to be the cushion, under which IAF can take risk of sending squadrons of Su30MKI back to HAL, get it fitted with upgrades and then induct back. 

As we are already operating on lower numbers, IAF cant take any risk with the squadron numbers. Else we would be found wanting for jets when in need.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

13 hours ago, G_B_ said:

And generally i am not a fan of rafale. But i think looking at tejas program, just order 72 more rafale (f4 and f5) from the french. They have the capacity to deliver by early 30s. Maybe can do a deal for used rafale to add more.

 

Apart from expanding mki production to 30 with super sukhoi upgrades its the only other play india have in the next year.

 

A call needs to be made on the third/fourth aircraft carrier. The flop tejas program means india should be looking at long range drones or something.

 

Yup, in current form. Rafale, though expensive; is quite capable aircraft in comparison to Eurofighter.

 

We just need to ensure it comes in with Meteor this time, else the integration with Astra will take another additional time and effort from HAL, which they cant do in their current capability.

 

Drone warfare is something where I am regularly getting the news of private sector showing their capabilities, specially in terms of Kamikaze and surveillance drones.

 

While UCAV is still niche and probably will take more time for pvt sectors, they will still do it before even HAL/DRDO finishes the design on a computer.

 

Third Aircraft Carrier deal depends on signing of Project 75I, 76, 77 and then on TEDBF fighter jet program. Once the funds are sorted for those...then only third aircraft carrier project will start as aircraft carriers are extremely resource extensive. 

[pkmmamks]

Yaad rakhna bhai. Operation Sindoor zaari hai. 

[G_B_]

6 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Yup, in current form. Rafale, though expensive; is quite capable aircraft in comparison to Eurofighter.

 

We just need to ensure it comes in with Meteor this time, else the integration with Astra will take another additional time and effort from HAL, which they cant do in their current capability.

 

Drone warfare is something where I am regularly getting the news of private sector showing their capabilities, specially in terms of Kamikaze and surveillance drones.

 

While UCAV is still niche and probably will take more time for pvt sectors, they will still do it before even HAL/DRDO finishes the design on a computer.

 

Third Aircraft Carrier deal depends on signing of Project 75I, 76, 77 and then on TEDBF fighter jet program. Once the funds are sorted for those...then only third aircraft carrier project will start as aircraft carriers are extremely resource extensive. 

 

With drone warfare the up front costs are limited. Allows fir quick innovation.

 

Unlike a jet engine which needs lots of money etc and can indirectly be only supported by the state.

 

 

[G_B_]

7 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Yup, in current form. Rafale, though expensive; is quite capable aircraft in comparison to Eurofighter.

 

We just need to ensure it comes in with Meteor this time, else the integration with Astra will take another additional time and effort from HAL, which they cant do in their current capability.

 

Drone warfare is something where I am regularly getting the news of private sector showing their capabilities, specially in terms of Kamikaze and surveillance drones.

 

While UCAV is still niche and probably will take more time for pvt sectors, they will still do it before even HAL/DRDO finishes the design on a computer.

 

Third Aircraft Carrier deal depends on signing of Project 75I, 76, 77 and then on TEDBF fighter jet program. Once the funds are sorted for those...then only third aircraft carrier project will start as aircraft carriers are extremely resource extensive. 

 

Truth is drones missiles air defence is all what is needed vs pak.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

Adani Group to infuse Rs 1.8 lakh cr into strengthening indigenous defence manufacturing and autonomous military systems

 

https://defence.in/threads/adani-group-to-infuse-rs-1-8-lakh-cr-into-strengthening-indigenous-defence-manufacturing-and-autonomous-military-systems.16402/

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, G_B_ said:

 

Truth is drones missiles air defence is all what is needed vs pak.

 

 

I think now the narrative is to prepare for a conflict with China. Almost in every discussion they're talking about the parity with Chinese Airforce and Navy.

 

Even China is gearing itself for a long term potential conflict with US proxies (Taiwan, S Korea, Japan) while creating enough arsenal to hold any possibility of Indian aggression into Tibet. 

Thats why China was fueling so much money into Pak, to create a deterrence for a possible Indian invasion during the conflict with US.

Edited December 29, 2025 by singhvivek141

[G_B_]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

I think now the narrative is to prepare for a conflict with China. Almost in every discussion they're talking about the parity with Chinese Airforce and Navy.

 

Even China is gearing itself for a long term potential conflict with US proxies (Taiwan, S Korea, Japan) while creating enough arsenal to hold any possibility of Indian aggression into Tibet. 

Thats why China was fueling so much money into Pak, to create a deterrence for a possible Indian invasion during the conflict with US.

 

 

That's pretty dumb, really. Will simply fuel more money into Indian armed forces.

 

Pinaka 120km has been approved, as has Astra mk2.

 

https://theprint.in/defence/200-km-range-astra-missile-120-km-range-pinaka-rockets-on-shopping-list-as-mod-clears-rs-79000-cr-proposals/2814298/

 

Quote

The IAF plans to procure at least 700 of them which will be integrated with the Sukhoi and the Tejas. This missile will come with enhanced range of over 200 km, longer than the European Meteor integrated with the Rafale aircraft.

 

 

Integrate astra mk2 with every bird we have lol. 

 

I dream of the day we can ping Islamabad from Poonch with a Pinaka. (distance 95km by air)

[singhvivek141]

54 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

 

 

That's pretty dumb, really. Will simply fuel more money into Indian armed forces.

 

Pinaka 120km has been approved, as has Astra mk2.

 

https://theprint.in/defence/200-km-range-astra-missile-120-km-range-pinaka-rockets-on-shopping-list-as-mod-clears-rs-79000-cr-proposals/2814298/

 

 

 

Integrate astra mk2 with every bird we have lol. 

 

I dream of the day we can ping Islamabad from Poonch with a Pinaka. (distance 95km by air)

 

Astra mk2, Brahmos ER, Rudram 2 are going to be the big boost which our jets needed.

Further by 2030, we might have Astra 3, Rudram 3 and Brahmos NG as well.

 

By then, Tejas mk1 and mk1a, both will become a competent jet instead of the current version which is a dangerous machine in the contested environment. 

[G_B_]

Will tejas be a competant jet lol

 

Heard efforts to integrate uttam on mig 29 are further ahead than tejas foc